If we are not the sum of our thoughts, then what are we?

[Arana]

Not sure if this should be in mental health, or here...but here goes.

I'm having therapy at the moment for depression, anxiety, all that shebang. One thing I'm struggling with (and the root of many of my problems) is that my mind has (aha) a mind of its own. My therapist told me that we are not the sum of our thoughts. If we are not though, then what are we?

My mind is in control of me, generating thoughts, creating options for me. I have a choice, but I feel like a passive passenger. Most of the time I let my mind do its own thing, it's fairly well behaved. But sometimes it goes wayward, and I struggle to control myself. I get into depressive cycles, become more irrational etc. Am I weak/lazy because I let my mind control my thoughts, and often my actions?

Any thoughts on this? I'm not religious, but I like to think there is more to life than atomic structure and electrical impulses, however, I struggle to logically rationalise it.

/ponder

This is where cognitive behavioural therapy comes in You can use it to gain control over your mind and restore balance so that you don't feel your thoughts running away with you.

You are not weak or lazy. You are caught in a trap of negative and destructing thoughts that have laid down a pattern in your mind and it's become ingrained and is difficult to change. CBT can help you to change these destructive thought processes and break free.

I can recommend it

I can also recommend a course of an SSRI which also helps you to think more positively and break out of the destructive cycle of negative thoughts.

wow, that is a big question.

minds are physical, and do go haywire sometimes when the stuff that transmits the messages between nerves goes wrong (I should have paid more attention at college ) however, I think we are more than just the physical.

personally, I think it is about relationships among other things.

If you could recommend an SSRI that didn't make me climb the walls I'd take them like hot cakes

Will definitely look more into CBT.

I remember reading the line 'you are not your mind' which Is obviously the same sort of thing. I like how you say your mind has a mind of its own. That is so true for me too. I honestly wish it would shut up about certain things that I am bored of but my mind's mind seems to think I just love to obsess about it. I wish my minds mind would get obsessed with something vaguely useful like politics instead of demanding I spend swathes of the day ruminating about stuff that thinking about is totally useless and often very unhelpful.

You need to try different SSRIs and try to wait until the side effects wear off. SSRIs have less side effects than the older tricyclic antidepressants, but it can take a couple of weeks for them to get into your system.

Escitalopram is generally tolerated very well from what I understand

We are not the sum of our thoughts. Though important, it is possible for our thoughts to be wrong. Therapy helps us to see this and change maladaptive thinking.

You are the sum of your thoughts, feelings, behaviors, experiences, physical body, social conditioning, culture, education and hopes.

I had only nausea for a few days on sertraline, OP. Also, can recommend any activity that teaches mindfulness and compassion - meditation, yoga etc.

There's a pretty good book called The Mindful Way through Depression which unpicks all this very astutely.

I don't for a moment believe we are the sum of our thoughts - that would be rather hellish and very limiting! The way I see it, the real self is there when we drop all thought.

I was on Citalopram for 3 months before I came off it - the normal side effects settled after about 6 weeks, but the anxiety just ramped up and up and up. It would have killed me in the end.

This is the problem I have with mindfulness though - my mind isn't interested. I struggle so hard to concentrate on being mindful - my brain wants to think about a billion different things, and just can't settle. The fewer external distractions there are, the more my mind itself becomes a distraction.

You are the sum of your thoughts, feelings, behaviors, experiences, physical body, social conditioning, culture, education and hopes.

Surely all of these feelings, behaviours etc originate from thoughts, or create thoughts in response?

That is totally and utterly normal, Arana! (the distractions thing!) That is what the point of meditation is...to learn how to let go of those thoughts and still your mind. Our mind is chattery and busy, but meditation teaches you to notice the thoughts, not to judge them, and to just let them go and come back to whatever you're meant to be meditating on - your breath, a mantra, whatever.

Not necessarily Arana. For example, you may think "I will not drink tonight", then find yourself pouring a glass of wine, or as you have said, you think you will clear your mind and then find a million things to think about.

I too have difficulties with clearing my mind. Or I did have. I now knitblush. My mind empties and my hands just do their thing.

I read something that summed it up quite nicely:
"Don't believe everything you think"

That seemed to square it with me :)
Also trying another AD now with a much more supportive specialist.