Finding it hard to believe

[practicallyimperfect]

I am struggling at the moment. I have only been a Christian for 2 years, I did an Alpha course. My husband did one after me. We go to church, a small group have friends there etc. I have mentioned on a previous thread about some of the issues. But I still can't shift some thoughts,

Tonight my husband admitted that he isn't really "feeling it". He loves the community aspect, the moral code etc. But he feels uncomfortable with the praying out loud, the idea of miracles etc. He says he isn't sure if he believes. He is curious, wants to keep investigating, but isn't sure he will ever be able to have full faith.

Which has just brought some of my thoughts to the front of my mind. I have doubts too. I don't pray enough, or read the bible much- I'm not a very good Christian! I struggle with miracles (why just some people, some of the time for example). I have mentioned before about my group feeling "God provides" to the point of giving up their jobs.

Argh. I do believe in God. I talk to him. I do believe in Jesus and the teachings. But some things I just struggle with. I am not making myself very clear, but I don't have anyone else to talk to about this. Just needed to get my thoughts down.

Your post will resonate ... it certainly does with me.

You talk to God, you believe in him, in Jesus and you respect his teachings - that makes you a "good" Christian - it really does! Even if you were riddled with doubts, God would understand, and it wouldn't make you less of a 'Christian'.

I struggle with a lot of stuff, in particular, the teaching/rules of my church. But I think that God is bigger than all that, and that Jesus' teaching is simpler. "The still small voice" .... Praying aloud is great for a lot of people but it's not a prerequisite for being a follower. People do things in their own way, at their own time. God understands that - he made us that way.

Have you looked at other churches where you may be more comfortable with the worship - you'd still have your friends at your present church. Take care.

There's not much to believe or disbelieve about Jesus - he existed and that's for certain. What's up for debate is whether or not he was the son of God.

Have you read anything by Lynne MacTaggart? Her books are like a scientific basis for spirituality - may help your husband believe a little more in the things that don't appear tangible and real to him?

Having said that, I don't believe for one minute in a single, male higher power, but I do believe very strongly in prayer, 'miracles' etc. and I believe that Jesus was an incredibly enlightened, wise human being, in the same way Buddha was and other wonderful human beings.

I have been a Christian all my life and never thought I'd have significant doubts... until last year. I'm now blighted by hundreds of 'em! But the thing that always gets me is when the doubts attack Jesus. I just can't listen to them any more. Won't here a word said against him!!

Hold on and don't give up. It's a hard life, but a good one lived God's way. It's like being in love - sometimes it's all great and easy, but sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and keep on going, in faith that there'll be a brighter day. There will be!

Some people might say that God must have confidence in you if he's allowing you to face this uncertainty... I don't know what you think of that, but it's a thought. :)

Oh, and I still tense up when there's praying out loud going on!

Thanks. I am going to go to a local CofE church tomorrow. See if I feel comfortable there.

I love modern worship music, but actually agree with my husband about the spontaneous out loud praying, and some other aspects of the church.

Practically, I've been reading this thread, wanting to respond, but not really been sure how to word what I wanted to say. Still don't know if I can get the words right, but will give it a go anyway. I think it's a good idea for you to check out other churches where you live. It is often so easy to confuse God with a particular church and people there and forget that no one church represents the whole truth of who God is, his grace and salvation and who we are as his people. What suits one person in terms of style may not suit another. That does not mean that one is more "Christian" or devout than the other. Just that different things speak to different people at different levels and in different ways and this can change at different stages in your life, too.
Perhaps you would feel more comfortable in a more "low key" setting? Different churches put the emphasis on different things but all are still part of God's family. I guess what I'm saying is, "Try not to throw the baby out with the bath water." Explore other churches around to see if can find one that expresses faith and the Gospel in a way that resonates better with you and where you are in your journey with and towards God.
Every blessing to you and your DH.

PracticallyImperfect (I'm tempted to abbreviate it to Pimp ): there just aren't 'good' Christians. We none of us pray enough, love enough, are perfect enough. Try to hold on to the fact that Jesus loves you, that He thinks you are the best thing since sliced bread and that He wholly approves of your battle to be more like Him.
We all struggle with certain things, no church is perfect (and if you do find the perfect one, for goodness sake don't join it, you might spoil it).

I would suggest that you take what's good in your current church and ignore what is not so good. After joining a church there almost always comes a time when you see the bad more than the good and you think you might be be happier somewhere else, but it isn't always so. I would try and stick it for another two years at least and if in that time you find somewhere else to explore then do so. But perseverance is something that is required of any Christian and I certainly would persevere with your current church for a while at least.

Dutch, I think you speak sense! I will persevere!

I think I have struggling because of what husband said. It would be nice if we could find somewhere to go all together.

I feel strange about just me and ds going to church from now on.

Maybe that will be so for a few weeks, Pimp. But then there will be something special (visiting preacher, something to do with the children) and you will say that you would really like him to come this time, no strings attached. He has not said that he definitely will never come again, has he?
God doesn't give up what He has begun, it's not easy to trust that promise and we all get times when we struggle with it, but I think that if you have a bit of patience you will both see that promise come true.

practicallyimperfect be encouraged. You are still young in the faith. After over 35 yrs plus as a christian I am still learning. I do not always get it right.

Is there anyone at the church you attend which you can talk too? As you are new in the faith its important to get support in your christian development.

Practicallyimperfect,

I don't want to be too contentious here, but have you considered the possibility that the reason that you and your DH are struggling might be because god doesn't exist?

It is possible to have a fulfilled life with a great community of people around you, as well as living a good and morally acceptable way of life without ever going to church or praying.

Join a choir, do some charity work in the local community, there are loads of options to help.

Just a thought.

Technodad

I'm with technodad on this... it is possible to live a good moral life with consideration, kindness and respect for others rights to have faith whilst at the same time as not believing in a deity oneself.
2 million Scots do
But I hope whatever answer you come to makes you feel at peace x

There appears to be 'something' missing in your life, and that of your DH, that you're trying desperately to fill with religion. Several people here have advised patience etc., as far as I'm concerned you either believe or you don't. I'm not sure you do, you say you do but it's not adding up to you either.

Of course it doesn't add up, it's an ancient myth based on more ancient myths. It has no relevance today and your (and your DH's) intelligent minds aren't willing to blindly accept. Good, no one should. Please read, read lots, read the bible if you feel you want to try to understand it (good luck with that), and read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins too.

You can live a full life without god, that hole you have isn't necessarily god-shaped

Hello practically

Can I recommend a book I have found really helpful on this subject - Faith and Doubt

It's a humane and honest exploration of the issues of faith and doubt from a Christian perspective. What you are going through is totally normal - Jude 22 says 'be merciful to those who doubt', so even early Christians struggled. This book talks about faith and doubt as being two sides of a coin - one is necessary for the other, almost, and doubt can be an enriching experience as you explore what you are doubting and educate yourself more widely around the issues. I've had huge struggles with doubt many times, and have always come back stronger for it and more convinced than ever of God's love and power. Doubt is ok, and I'd be wary of anyone who said they never doubted, to be honest - that would lead me to think they were blindly following something they hadn't fully thought through.

So don't worry about 'not being a good enough Christian.' There isn't such a thing!

practicallyimperfect I really hope you will feel some peace at this time. I have been a Christian for almost 30 years and still I experience doubt and all the usual failings. I would rather live with God in my life than not, and I know that it does all add up, but maybe I will not work it all out until I meet Jesus face to face, well, yes, I certainly will not work it all out. The Bible talks about working out your salvation, and I think that means something like living it out, doing it.

Our lives as Christians are very often described as a journey, some bits bumpy, some bits scenic, some bits where everyone in the car is shouting "Are we nearly there yet!".

Your husband and you are both on that journey but we all go out our own pace and somethings may be easier for one or other of you at different times.

I also think personality plays a big part in things like praying out loud. I love praying out loud at church (when one person is speaking! _ some churches several people might pray at once, which I am not so keen on!). My hubby never prays out loud at church and I know he would find it very uncomfortable to do so. We are all different. Praying (as I know you know) is just talking to God. So sometimes it's quiet, just between you and God, and sometimes in a community setting it's someone out loud. Just as within a family some conversations are one-to-one, and others involve lots of relatives etc like a speech at a family wedding! Anyway, don't want to drone on, just wanted to say you are normal, and you are very loved by God.

May you feel at peace on your journey, you don't need to find all the answers in one go!

Can I recommend a very funny easy to read book which I read when I first became a Christian, please?

The Sacred Diary of Adrian Plass aged 37 3/4 (it is a fun fictional book).
www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=sacred+diary+adrian+plass&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=15209383074&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15155402331552278627&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_1oc92r6fw_b

I am currently re-reading 'From Growing up pains to scared diary Nothing is wasted' by Adrian Plass. (it is a real life story of Adria's interesting and at times troubled life).

www.amazon.com/Growing-Up-Pains-Sacred-Diary/dp/0310278570

All best wishes.

Doubt is perfectly natural have you talked to your priest/ vicar? If praying out load isn't your thing and your hubby doesn't feel comfortable have you considered trying other churches? There are many different 'feel' churches out there and it's sometimes a matter of finding one that suits even if you do not change denomination.

It sounds as though the place you're at is too 'in your face' for you (both?). In which case, have a look around. some christians do go for the whole things with tremendous gusto and it can make you (one) feel a bit of a fraud in comparison - or somehow not matching up. I find all that carrying on a bit much tbh. We're all different.

I've also, technically, been a christian for 30 years (which includes a long time away) and I frequently catch myself thinking "come on, you've got to be kidding!" - ie doubting. I think sometimes that it's all a bit fantastical and also so profound it blows your head off... I know that if that happens I need to take a break, do something mundane/ordinary, maybe leave off church for a while. God can take it, promise! I personally find church a whole other thing tbh - God I'm ok with (big time), it's church that can be a major challenge for me often sometimes.

imo God's after a personal relationship and sometimes starts moving in when he's ended up behind other people ie it's easy, particularly as a relatively new christian, to relate to God through other people. That fine but ime he does tend to start moving in on you personally - he's says he's jealous and that's been my experience. ime he is very ordinary in a way and will more than welcome heart-to-hearts. ie talk to him. about how you're feeling, your doubts, your husband... get it all out. You don't have to mind your p's and q's either - tell it like it is. He's not remotely religious so won't be expecting you to fulfil this or that before you can talk to him, heart to heart. If you struggle to get the words out, maybe write it down, as a letter? If you don't want to get up close and personal with him then tell him that too, talk to him about what you want. Be honest.

practicallyimperfect how is it going?