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Original poster

Why do some people find it hard to believe in God?

999 replies

MosEisley · 15/01/2012 22:49

I believe in God.

However, I am attending an adult confirmation class and we have been asked to consider why some people do not believe in God. DH and I came up with:

  • there is no absolute proof of God's existence
  • they are rebelling against a strict organised religion that they can't accept as literallly true

If you know someone who doesn't believe in God, why don't they?

OP posts:
thirdfromleft · 18/01/2012 21:16

The funny thing is that I read Honisoit's messages and hear my own attitude from back then. Self-righteous conviction is a drug, you can't shake it without serious help.

honisoit · 18/01/2012 21:17

Rational, re intellectual - I reinterpreted Ariel's post about the Christian faith being complicated.

honisoit · 18/01/2012 21:18

No, Beryl, that is not what I mean.

ArielNonBio · 18/01/2012 21:20

The very fact that there are so many interpretations and therefore so many conflicting denominations of what should be a very simple thing makes it seem complicated and contradictory..

joanofarchitrave · 18/01/2012 21:20

Intellectual... There's that lovely verse in the Bible where it says that working people shouldn't go into politics, I know that. Can't tell you where it is, sorry, but I was supposed to read it in chapel one Sunday and I went and had a huge argument with the chaplain, but then I overslept and avoided the issue that way...

madhairday · 18/01/2012 21:22

Oh lawks. Look what happens when I go off to watch some trashy TV for a while. I'm now off to bed, but wanted to say I hadn't left the conversation, and that I don't by any means think I have it all right, and think I made that clear a bit earlier on. All journeying together and all that fluffiness. Night.

ivykaty44 · 18/01/2012 21:23

Why do some people find it hard to believe in God?

who is this god you talk about and why is it hard to believe in him? I am not finding it hard to believe in this god, I just don't do or have anything to do with gods, or a god or religion and so don't really understand the question? is the question aimed at people who want to believe in god and are not able to? Or is the question to people who don't have a god in their lives?

I wasn't brought up with a family that did church or gods and it wasn't ever really spoken about, as there wasn't anything to say as it was just something we didn't do like football wasn't talked about as we didn't watch or go to games - I knew some people went to church and went myself one day to have a look and see what happened, didn't like or dislike but didn't stay on (I was only about 6-7) It was a methodist church if that helps, in about 1973. I have seen a football match on tv but never been to an actual match in real life.

Rational · 18/01/2012 21:23

"We have already established that we are all made in the image of God. there is good in all of us.

Jesus was perfect and free from sin (free to have a relationship with God the father). We, however, are all sinful (I won't go as far as totally depraved) and not free to have a relationship with God.

The wages of sin is death - that means a spiritual death, cut off from God.

The payment for sin was sacrifice of an unblemished lamb (literally in OT times, metaphorically Jesus, the lamb of God).

Jesus died to pay for our sins. The he rose again to conquer death once and for all. For all eternity, he made it possible for his followers to have a right relationship with God.

Some people don't believe in God because the Holy Spirit has not awakened in them. There is nothing for them to yearn or to respond to.

Not everyone has ears to hear.

There is no concept of "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" in Christianity. Jesus has already paid the ultimate price. Any good we do for others is because of what he has already done for us. We love because he loved us first.

Salvation is, by grace, through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ."

Preaching.

stubborncow · 18/01/2012 21:23

haven't read all this but I was brought up Catholic and remember vividly, when i was 6/7 in my First Communion preparation stages saying prayers along the lines of
"I know that 'blessed is he who has not seen and yet believes' but I would find it so much easier if you could send some kind of sign or bring me back in time so I could see Jesus or something". Unsurprisingly, my prayers were not answered!
I think the OP's first point - there is no evidence that he exists is strongest for me. I find it fascinating that lots of intelligent clear thinking people can and do believe but I cannot find that kind of faith in myself. I also find it fascinating that so many cultures across time have come up with some form of God. I see it as a comfort thing and a way of making sense of life - having someone/something to help them through.
My husband is Muslim and for him, there is evidence enough in patterns in the Qu'ran and in some of the scientific things that are described in there to cement his faith that there is a god. He is a scientist.
I can't get past my own lack of belief though.

HedleyLamarr · 18/01/2012 22:22

honisoit Wed 18-Jan-12 21:03:12

We have already established that we are all made in the image of God. there is good in all of us.

So this 'god' type has more than 6 Bn faces? Praise be to Hitchens! And of course Dawkins and MC Hawko.

You put your faith in your god Honisoit, I shall continue to put my faith in science. Religion hasn't found cures for illnesses. Religion doesn't keep premature babies alive. It does start wars though.

Whenever anyone tells me they believe in god i ask which one? The usual answer is Cheesus to which I reply, 'oh, you're almost as much of an atheist as me, you only believe in one god'.

So no, I don't believe in a god for the same reason I don't believe in Hansel & Gretel. They're both false constructs.

MMMarmite · 18/01/2012 22:46

Madhairday your post at 18.56 was beautiful.
"And yet in all this, I remain convinced, and I find again and again that I am utterly fulfilled, utterly entranced by the presence of God in my life."
I'm not religious but I really respect, even envy, this kind of faith - thoughtful, non-preachy and something that makes your life and others' lives better.

I think a strong reason I don't believe in God is the sheer diversity of different religions. If I'd grown up in a community that all shared one religion, then in my moments of 'wanting to find faith' I would perhaps have joined that religion. But my parents are atheist and my friends have many different religious backgrounds. There's no one obvious faith to choose, and when you look at a religion in the context of lots of other religions it makes it seem less plausible - they each say it's vital to worship their god and renounce all other gods, and if you pick the wrong one, or grow up in the wrong culture, you can't go to heaven. I realise some people don't think that, but that liberal view seems to contradict scriptures: if God didn't mind which religion you picked, then why would religious texts put so much emphasis of the importance of obeying that particular religion.

GrimmaTheNome · 18/01/2012 22:53

I think the majority contributing to this thread would agree that God (the Ibrahimic one anyway) is made in the image of man. At least the Egyptians, Hindus and others aren't quite so egocentric.

Honisoit (curious about the name BTW - 'shame upon him'?) demonstrated in her sermon (the one c&pd by Rational) exactly the sort of thing that seems to make sense from the inside but not at all from the outside:
'The payment for sin was sacrifice of an unblemished lamb (literally in OT times, metaphorically Jesus, the lamb of God).

Jesus died to pay for our sins. The he rose again to conquer death once and for all. '

I won't go so far as to call this total nonsense. It makes a sort of sense if you're rooted in a bronze-age culture of animal sacrifice. The idea that an omnipotent God who made a vast universe would have to play this sort of bloodthirsty game simply doesn't stand up to reason. It's fit to serve as 'Deep Magic' in a children's book - I can't get far enough back into my own head to fathom how I could ever have swallowed this.

Rational · 18/01/2012 22:54

Yea, Madhairday, is one of the original 'fluffies', I don't envy her her faith in the slightest but she's just so bloody fluffy about it I can't get pissed off Wink

Oh, and she doesn't preach, nor does Cheerful. Cheers Girls!

GrimmaTheNome · 18/01/2012 22:56

gods are made in our image - so madhair and cheerful get a nice one.

Rational · 18/01/2012 22:58

I'm sure madhairday and cheerful's god is as darn fluffy as they are.

GrimmaTheNome · 18/01/2012 23:04

I tried finding a picture ...Fluffiness can be deceptive

Rational · 18/01/2012 23:07

Ooooo! Maybe even their god smites now and then, but probably only by making it rain on your wedding day or something equally benign Wink

CheerfulYank · 18/01/2012 23:38

"Isn't it ironic..." :o No you daft caaahhh, it's bad luck!

Well, the bible says the out of faith, hope, and charity, the greatest is charity. And that God will render every man according to his works.

ArielNonBio · 19/01/2012 08:33

Doesn't that contradict what Honisoit has been on about Confused

Yes, still musing the morning after! Grimma and Marmite, you have put into words (much better than I have) what I have been thinking.

GrimmaTheNome · 19/01/2012 08:50

Doesn't that contradict what Honisoit has been on about
What, the ' God will render every man according to his works.' part?

Not really. I think in her book you need to be one of the elect but then you must also do the works. (she said something about faith without works being dead - this is normal mainstream doctrine). I was trying to remember where Cheerful's quote came from and found this decidedly unfluffy interpretation. 'Render' is judgement as well as reward - well, fair enough. This is a better position than those christians who glibly excuse their poor behaviour by saying Jesus has saved them and they're not perfect but then don't really even try to live good lives (I've met a few like this. Nails in the coffin of my erstewhile faith)

ArielNonBio · 19/01/2012 08:51

Ah, the "chosen" again

CheerfulYank · 19/01/2012 08:54

Ugh, the elect.

My grandmother, the only really religious person in my upbringing, used to say "Now don't be so heaven-bound you're of no earthly good!" :o

ArielNonBio · 19/01/2012 08:55

So again, how do you know if you're an elect? I asked this upthread and was told that no person on the Internet could possibly answer this. Say you've been elected all along and just didn't realise?

CheerfulYank · 19/01/2012 08:58

I don't think any human person can know the mind of It, and to think otherwise it arrogant and prideful in the extreme.

My personal thoughts, anyway. :)

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 19/01/2012 09:14

I belive in God because I want to. I dont have to justify it to anyone and no one has to justify their beliefs to me.

I want to believe in Heaven because I want my DD to be there. Why should I sweep all that away because of scathing comments from those who want to force me to give up my faith?

I wouldnt evangelise or snort at agnostics or atheists. I dont care what they do or dont believe. If they are happy thats fine.

If I want to find comfort in faith as well as in shopping and sewing and getting my hair done, why shouldnt I?

Yes I agree a lot of evil has been done in the name of religion but just as much has been done when absolutly no religion has been involved at all.

I am not stupid or gulible. I am who I am. I am not particuarly happy with God right now but thats my business.

I cant answer the OP's question because I dont know. Doesnt make me an idiot.