Babtism - mum Catholic, dad Greek Orthodox

[Mintie190]

Hi, my DH and I wish to baptise our DD but are torn on in which church we should do it.

My family is very religious (Catholic), go to mass every Sunday but I am a bit lapsed attending just for the major celebrations. My family are all in Australia and I am now in the UK. My DH's family (Greek Orthodox - 'GO') are less religious but still practise and it's more of a cultural thing for them (they are Cypriot, living in Cyprus). We got married in Cyprus and in the GO church which was a bit upsetting for my family - and TBH, I regret the choice we made a bit as the day was so much more about their side than mine. I don't want the marriage ceremony to have created a precedent for all things religious to be done in the GO church.

The couple we would like to be godparents are GO. They are such lovely people and would be a wonderful role model for our DD. This points to us having our DD baptised GO. I don't have any close Catholic friends in the UK although I could have a proxy godparent.

If the baby is baptised in the GO church can she still practise as a Catholic or does she become GO from that day? I thought that perhaps she is christened a Christian and the decision as to what religion she will be can be deferred for another day?

It's so hard dealing with mixed races and religions. My DH's family have a tendancy to take over and dominate while my family is politely in the background. I was just praying when I was pregnant that my DD would look like her Australian side so they would appreciate that she is 50% Australian!! It's silly but just the way the wedding went, I feel I need to assert my culture and religion or else it will never be respected.

"The Orthodox Church is evangelical, but not Protestant. It is orthodox, but not Jewish. It is catholic, but not Roman. It isn't non-denominational - it is pre-denominational. It has believed, taught, preserved, defended and died for the Faith of the Apostles since the Day of Pentecost 2000 years ago. ... The Orthodox Church is the Church founded by Jesus Christ and his apostles, begun at the day of Pentecost with the descent of the Holy Spirit in the year 33 A.D."

is a quote from here

Could your unease be about something less unworldly than how Christian DD will be?

May I add that I am neither RC nor GO.

Many Catholic priests will let you have a non-Catholic godparents.

I always thought (and certainly here in Italy) they talk about the Orthodox church as being their first cousins so to speak so tbh, I wouldn't have thought it was as much of a dilemma as, say, a Catholic/Anglican combo.

It's only hard dealing with "mixed races and religions" if you make it. (from an agnostic,(christened CoE, who is the partner of, and mother of, staunch Catholics, and who goes to mass every Sunday, because, surprising even myself, I find it very peaceful and nice )

"wouldn't have thought it was as much of a dilemma as, say, a Catholic/Anglican combo"

I suppose dilemmas are created only by the priest. Ours had no issue with a combo of several Orthodox churches, RC and Anglican.

I have been shown many things by the source of all things, but never that any 'club' was preferred over another. TBH I can't say I expect to be shown that either. But as for the salesmen/women, well no one can get the staff these days, can they?

Your that family in the slap, aren't you?

We are catholic and baptized our children when they were one month old. We went with both catholic godparents (mixed of friends and relatives). Best speak with your priest at your local catholic church. Ours said that at least one godparent need be catholic. The godparents need to make those promises about bringing up children in the faith etc (as did we). I'd suggest speaking to your priest about it.

As I understand it the Orthodox church is the only one "in communion" with the Catholic church, and so it won't matter which church your DD is baptised in, or takes first communion in - she will still be able to take communion in both churches.

The two churches are very close, and our parish priest does a lot of praying for the unification of the two churches.

"Your that family in the slap, aren't you?"

I'm almost intrigued to know what that means in normal language. However, florist, if it's some negative narrow-minded comment, please don't bother "enlightening" anyone.

According to the Catholic-Orthodox Joint Declaration of 1965 (instigated by Patriarch Athinagoras) the two churches rescinded the excommunications made a thousand years previously and agreed to accept the sacraments as administered in each others' churches.

So your DD can be baptised in the GOC but brought up as a Catholic if you so wish, and may even receive confirmation in the Catholic Church with a special dispensation from the bishop (confirmation or chrism is administered together with baptism in the GOC).

I have attended many GOC baptisms and they are quite different. If you have never been to one, and decide to have your DD baptised there, then may I suggest you find out as much as possible in advance so you have an idea what to expect. She will be immersed three times in a huge font of water (the one in my local church looks like a brass cauldron). Towards the end, the mother is required to kneel (or make 3 genuflections) in repentance. I refused to do this as I am not Orthodox, I do not believe and I felt it would be hypocritical.

chrchrch - no it wasn't mean it was meant to be a joke. I guess you have not read it

Alexpolis, sorry to hijack but can you point me to a good source of info on Greek orthodox baptism? I am not but dh is and ds is being baptised in GOC and needless to say, his family are not great at providing info...

OP : I can't help re religious impact but I do sympathise re your dh family. I have similar issues whereby they just make assumptions and go with things without thinking how it makes others feel. They are good people but can be completely thoughtless. Good luck.

Bling - where are you having the ceremony? UK? Greece/ Cyprus?

If in the UK, it will probably be similar to this which is in America. They might speak in Greek rather than English (they always have in churches I have attended). It might seem quite repetitive and long winded, and I advise you to wear comfortable shoes, as you will be standing around a lot and your feet get quite tired.

this link explains what it's all about.

If in Greece, have a look at to give you a rough idea.

This is my experience: When you get started, everyone stands in the entrance to the church. The godmother/ father holds the baby. The priest reads something at them. They have to turn to all four points of the compass and make vows/ promises, a prayer is read. The name is shouted out. It seems to take quite a while.

They then all process to the front of the church. The priest reads/ chants, and while that is going on, you have to undress the baby. I keep mine wrapped in a towel so they don't catch cold while they wait for the priest to be ready. The godmother generally helps. Then you hand the baby to the godparent, who takes her to the font. She will be immersed three times while they chant, and then annointed with oil. Then they wrap her in a big sheet (to wipe the oil) and a towel. At some point they priest blesses a cross/ crucifix, which is then put round the baby's neck (my ds1 promptly tried to eat it). more chanting begins, lots of incense (they love incense in the GOC, it always makes my eyes water). they bring the baby back to get dressed, and it's supposed to be in new clothes, to mark the start of a new life as a Christian. At some point the priest will ask you to give the baby back to the godparent. More chanting. Then a sermon. Then they will ask you to kiss the bible. The godparent holds the baby while she is given holy communion. Then the mother is asked to kneel three times in front of the godparent and kiss their hand before taking the baby back. (if you are not GOC, you can bypass this. I did). That's about it.

Thanks! That's a great description and seems to sum up my earlier research! My poor parents - they never know what's hit them!

oh ok florist, as you see, I'm a cultural desert.

Thank you alexpolismum - that's really useful to know. I had heard that the ceremony was very different to the Catholic one. I feel very uncomfortable about the whole thing... I know I will be upset to have my DD go through with it despite both the GO and Catholic churches being christian and having that joint declaration. It just isn't my church or my traditions and yet again my DH's family have it their way. They don't even acknowledge that there is another option. I have some thinking to do.

And, florist I have The Slap in my bookshelf but am yet to read it. I shall do so as i am intrigued!

Mintie - if you are really uncomfortable about it, then don't have it done just yet. Delay it for a while to give yourself some time to think about it. Don't just give in to pressure from your inlaws, however intimidating they might be. If you regret your wedding day choices, then you will probably also regret the baptism if you allow it to go ahead. So don't rush into it.

I'm a bit sneaky, so what I would probably do in your shoes would be to have a Catholic baptism first, invite your family and friends. Then, don't tell the GOC you have had a Catholic baptism already, and arrange the GOC one in Cyprus, and invite all of dh's side. If they ask why your family are not there, you can say that with the recession on they can't afford it, but you will take them photos and video. They will then feel especially pleased that they're the only ones that got to see it. I'm sure God won't mind having both!

It's a bit different for me, as I actually live in Greece, and as you say, it is a cultural thing. I know that if I had participated in it fully I would have regretted it as I am not a member of the GOC and do not believe. I would have felt that participating would be compromising my own beliefs and principles. But I don't regret giving my consent for it to go ahead.

Incidentally, if the plan is for you to travel to Cyprus for it, if it is anything like Greece, you will have to sign an official paper declaring that you give full consent to the baptism and you understand what it is about. I have signed three of these so far (three children here!) and the priest has taken this as a good sign and asked me if I was interested in converting! I politely declined.

Mintie, as far as I know the Catholic church won't baptise unless the mother is present (so I imagine it's the same with GO) And this must be with good reason...you need to be happy for it to take place.

IMO there are 2 things a mother gets the final say; hair cuts and religion. (Lots of people will disagree with that, so I will point out that my DC are baptised into DH's religion, but 100% with my consent)