AIBU to think that if some Cristians won't do yoga because it might damage their faith....

[seeker]

...they can't simultaneously say that making children to pray to a Christian god in school won't have any influence on their inner lives?

Sorry that this is a thread about a thread by the way, but I didn't want to derail the one where the yoga teacher is asking for information.

I've heard that tescos will have compulsory prayers to Jehovah at the checkout.

It's okay though as there will be a special aisle with a sign saying "non believers and Muslims queue here"

And there never was a problem with black people. They were allowed on the bus as long as they sat at the back.

I think it is very sad that people want to take the Christianity out of schools and out of this country. So you don't believe. I those who don't believe preach way too much on here and start religious discussions on here more than any Christian. It's like they are ramming unbelief down our throats. Get a grip and live and let live. Children need to be allowed to make there own mind up. Give then some credit. Believe or don't believe surely giving children a Christian grounding with good and right teaching can't do any harm. Love thy neighbour etc.

Onagar: schools are hardly the same as Tescos. The requirement for schools to provide a collective act of worship is a matter of law. And also UK is in law a Christian country.

There is unlikely be be any move to change the law re assemblies unless/until parents are indeed opting out in sufficient numbers.

Also would the schools issue have to form part of a wider dis-establishment debate? (I suspect there are greater demands on Parliamentary time).

"I think it is very sad that people want to take the Christianity out of schools and out of this country." Why, if they are not Christian?

"It's like they are ramming unbelief down our throats. Get a grip and live and let live." Oh, the irony!

"Children need to be allowed to make there own mind up." so why privilege a particular, not especially coherent, faith?

"surely giving children a Christian grounding with good and right teaching can't do any harm. Love thy neighbour etc." You know what - I don't see how the inclusion or exclusion of the word "Christian" in that sentence is making the slightest difference. "surely giving children a grounding with good and right teaching can't do any harm. Love thy neighbour etc." I quite agree - so why does it need to be Christian? Do Christians have the monopoly on being good people?

supergreenuk, if you worship your god in church your kids still get to do it, but ours don't. Christians are not demanding the right for their kids to worship but the right to force ours to.

meditrina, I do know that there is a law saying you can do this to my kids. I'm saying that if Christians were decent people they would choose not to.

They would teach ABOUT religion in schools, and leave the actual worshipping for in church.

All the organised Christian churches that I am aware of in UK condemn breaking the law. So I would expect them to want to see schools continue to adhere to it.

I've never met anyone who objected to parents exercising their opt out (so am not aware of any Christians forcing participation). Indeed, the only family I knew who opted out were (excessively) devout Roman Catholics who saw the non-denominational assembly as an insulting, inadequate charade.

Christians are not demanding these things. The fact is it wouldn't upset me either way. Do it don't do it....I am still going to take my child to church to make her own mind up further down the line.
Most laws are based about scriptural rules and without those there would be chaos.choose what ever label you like ....... Worldly or Christian it is a fact this is a Christian nation with it's roots firm In Christian teaching. I have to admit to not being church of England as there are massive compromises going on there but other faiths choose to live here and accept our faith then why can't you be more accepting.

"Most laws are based about scriptural rules and without those there would be chaos." Pure nonsense. It would be much more accurate to say that most scriptural laws are based on pre-existing cultural conventions or de facto "laws". Do you really think that, before the Big Day Out To The Mountain, humans were running round on an uncontrollable orgy of lust, murder, theft and incest, then Moses said, "hang on a minute, lads - this just in ..." and they all stopped? These are widespreasd, almost universal, cultural taboos which are observed in populations who had never heard of your God till the missionaries turned up - and for every taboo we have and they don't, there is another one that they have and we don't. So "there would be chaos" without those laws, it's true - but from there to inferring that scripture has saved humanity from itself? Bollocks.

Yes some cultures in biblical times were behaving in such a way.

Anyway while I'm my soap box......Christians are subjected to so many worldly things that that are far worse than a quick prayer on school. Granted we can change the channel but there are ghost hunting shows, tarot cards in advertisements, horoscopes in papers and facebook, porno mags in newsagents. I think we have far more cause for complaint.

"Yes some cultures in biblical times were behaving in such a way."

Were they bollocks. Which ones? Where's your evidence for this?

"Christians are subjected to so many worldly things that that are far worse than a quick prayer on school."

1. you say they are "far worse" as if that's a fact. It is actually an opinion. In my opinion, forced prayer ranks way, WAY above optional horoscopes as pernicious nonsense.

2. you hit the nail on the head when you describe these things as "worldy". They are "of the world" and you, with your particular brand of coping strategy for the world, should be the one fitting yourself to this state of affairs, rather than expecting everyone else i.e. the massive majority to pander to your purely subjective and apparently quite inconsistent moral code.

Moabites were sacrificing children and prostituting there women. Ammonites were thoroughly corrupt in morals, and given over to the revolting and cruel idolatry of the Canaanites, but in addition they were thieves and robbers like the Amalekites. Plenty of historical websites to choose from. Take your pick.

"Moabites were sacrificing children and prostituting there women." Okay, sacrificing children is obviously a no-no to most people in this day and age - except isn't that a test that God applied to one of his most faithful followers? As for prostitution, well, thanks to Christianity and the scriptural basis of our laws we've got THAT knocked on the head, eh?

"Ammonites were thoroughly corrupt in morals" - I am struggling to see how this could be more vague.

"and given over to the revolting and cruel idolatry of the Canaanites" - the only thing that stops Christianity being idolatry is a belief that God is the one true God, so this is a pretty pathetic argument.

"but in addition they were thieves and robbers like the Amalekites." What, every single one of them was out on the nick every night? Surely theft would cease to be theft and become instead a communal ownership of property in such circumstances? In any case, once again, thanks to our scriptural laws, we no longer have to worry about theft and robbery. Phew!

"Plenty of historical websites to choose from. Take your pick." I will. Name three of them that present these claims as fact and support it with evidence and I will pick my favourite.

I was hoping to get you started with a few links myself. Here's one about Moabites.

www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/386718/Moabite

Sadly it doesn't mention prostitutes or child sacrifice.

Probably because that's a story, rather than what we call historical fact.

Just a guess.

God made those rules as a basis to live by. We all have free will so unfortunately just because he wrote these rules doesn't mean we all suddenly miraculously stop deeeeeerrrr!!!
These rules however have been set as law so we can't just go around doing those things hence reduced chaos. And breath. Hug it out.

Similarly, the first legitimate-looking text I can find that relates to the Canaanites

history-world.org/canaanite_culture_and_religion.htm

does not mention "revolting and cruel idolatry". It just describes a fairly well developed and sophisticated polytheistic religious system.

I think that you and fact are, at best, nodding acquaintances.

"God made those rules as a basis to live by." No, he didn't. Man did. You may BELIEVE that god made them; but, sadly, the evidence, while not conclusive, is very much on my side.

In any case, even allowing that God made them, that considerably weakens your original argument which appeared to be that God had saved us from ourselves. The origin of the rules is secondary; it is our compliance with them that makes for civilisation.

And archaeological evidence shows that communities who could not possibly have heard of your God were already abiding by the majority of the commandments.

"schools are hardly the same as Tescos"

It makes as much sense to worship in school as it does to worship in tesco. The only reason anyone thinks otherwise is that they think teaching about religion is the same as worshipping god.

Teaching about religion is fine. Saying "We're having assembly and during the course of it will also worship my god. if you don't like it go stand outside" is not okay.

Christians are subjected to so many worldly things that that are far worse than a quick prayer on school.

So once again you are saying it doesn't matter much? if it doesn't matter much to you but does to us then why not stop doing it?

That's one web site. Try some more. I'm not going to argue if they did or didn't have gang bangs and such like because they did. They lived shocking lives. Why else would god want to set rules in stone if these things were giving him a headache.

And I am very offended by the claims that morals come from god. Your god told Abraham to tie his son up and cut his throats. Because he was willing to do so he was rewarded.

Stand up and say that is moral or shut up about religion providing morals once and for all.

Anyway I'm bored now

"The Amalekites are unknown historically and archaeologically outside of the Bible except for traditions which themselves apparently rely on biblical accounts." New World Encyclopedia.

That's now three websites. I'm going to continue. Your "evidence" is, in fact, the Bible and texts written on the basis that the Bible is true. Why don't you find me one or two of these sources if you are so sure they're out there?

Ammonites - I can't find a non-biased reference to these at all, except to say (Wikipedia) that there was kingdom of Ammon who paid tribute to Judah. Not quite the same as "Ammonites were thoroughly corrupt in morals", you will probably agree.

Of course you're bored now - you're used to winning arguments by saying, "well, it's in the Bible." Now it's turning into hard work you don't want to play. I don't blame you, my 3-y-o daughter's the same.

"because they did."

Sorry, didn't see this earlier.

You have won and I have lost.

I feel a proper chump.

"Why else would god want to set rules in stone if these things were giving him a headache."

I've no idea.

Maybe because it isn't true and he doesn't actually exist?

Just an alternative perspective to consider.