Want to get to know God, trying church, but feeling very stuck, please help

[zulubump]

It's hard to get everything relevant down in one post, but here's an attempt. I'm from a non-religious background but have been going to a local church for about two years and taking my dcs (age 3 and 1 years). I'm in a happy marriage and am a SAHM and generally content with my lot in lie, but have been searching for something for a while now to make my life more "meaningful". Church and the idea of God/Jesus get close at times, but I'm really unsure about the Christian faith and find the Bible to often be incomprehensible or unhelpful and upsetting. I've done an Alpha course, but did find it hard to be open and honest about all my doubts.

I go through phases of really enjoying church and feeling like God is there with me in life. But now and again I'll attend a Sunday service that covers aspects of Christianity that I'm really uncomfortable with and I feel it all falling away from me. I feel like I'm not allowed to be close to God because I don't/can't believe certain things (eg Hell, or a chapter from James on how the tongue is full of poison!!, original sin etc). I feel like I don't know this God and I loose all that good feeling..

That's how I'm feeling at the moment after this Sunday. Am feeling tearful and snappy with the DCs and like God has abandoned me because I don't know where to turn to sort out these feelings. I've prayed and asked for help but feel like there is no one there listening. Can anyone understand how I feel and offer any advice or encouragement?

Or there are the liberal Catholic views:

"Hell exists... but I'm sure it's empty."
"Original sin simply means being born into a world which is already broken."

My starting point tends to be trying to get closer to God, on the assumption that getting to know Him better will solve my doubts and misunderstandings. Plus being aware of the impossibility of understanding anything infinite.

The truth is it is normal to be challenged by the bible & christianity. Our thinking and understanding isn't perfect when we become a christian. I find it helpful to meet up with people from church who are on a similar journey of discovery

Hi, just wanted to say I'm quite sad that your church isn't giving you the opportunities to get your questions answered, that would drive me bonkers too! I'm a lay preacher in the C of E, and one of the best ways I found to describe hell was

"Because God is infinitely just, we have to believe hell exists. Because God is infinitely merciful, we don't have to believe he sends anyone there".

Throughout my journey of faith, I have more and more come to see God as a God of love, who loves his creation. There are parts of what others believe that I struggle to accept, but only because I see God as a God of love, not a God of wrath.

I like some of the early writers, such as Julian of Norwich, who had visions and conversations with God. I love the fact she asked God about suffering, and that God wouldn't tell her why he allowed suffering, but he did say to her "all will be well and all will be well and all manner of things will be well". And that sort of gives me a feeling that I just have to trust God on this.

The other thing which I'd like to say is that whatever we believe or don't believe, won't change the truth that is God. God told us to love him and to love our neighbour as ourselves. If you can do that, THAT is what is important.

Found this a v interesting and stimulating thread and have made notes of lots of the references to go and look up further.
In my teens I read the whole bible, book by book, as literature rather than as spiritual guidance and I think this is a good starting point to contextualise any further study. BBC4 and C4 have both done interesting series on "difficult questions" within christianity, christianity in a historical context and christianity within the context of other religions and they tend to do things in a similar vein regularly.
The University near where I live does some courses within the Divinity faculty for religious enquiry and if you have access to something like this it could help to broaden your horizons and find like minded individuals. You can probably research individual lecturers via faculty websites.
I am Church of Scotland but am probably on the even more liberal spectrum of the liberal Catholic views expressed above as I am a Universalist and do not accept that Christianity is the only route to God. I do believe in Hell in the sense that I believe it to be the state of mind you are left with if you are uninformed by a relationship with God.
Bit of a ramble but I just wanted to add my tuppence worth given that I feel so enlightened by everyone else's contribution.

Hello there, hadn't been on Mumsnet for a while (due to computer problems!) so it's interesting to log on and find some recent posts here! Thanks. I'm still going to church and managed to be brave enough to have a frank chat with a lady I know who also does some "Christian listening" service work. It was good to get things off my chest and I have also talked to another friend from church since. However I don't really feel like I'm moving forward in resolving my doubts. I'm not part of a house group - I could join my friend's, but feel unsure of how at ease I would feel in being honest about my doubts and asking the questions I really want to ask.

I've been lent the Alpha course book, but don't really find it all that helpful. MaryBS, who do you think I should be talking to? Howabout - thanks for your ideas. I will check to see if our local uni do any helpful courses.

I've also been lent a book called Bible from Scratch. It's very good at summarising each book of the Bible. But a problem I have is that I find the Old Testament quite disturbing. God seems to do some very strange things (scary even). Anyone else find this?

My Mum,in her late 60s, is doing a read the bible in a year course with a group of friends at her church. All of these people are lifelong church members and are having the same concerns re how disturbing the God of the Old Testament can be. You are normal.

Revelations is pretty uncompromising stuff too though! I also know a fair few who struggle with universal forgiveness of sin in the New Testament.
This is why I think it is a good starting point to read it all to set the context, otherwise people start quoting verses out to suit their own arguments without you having the backdrop of the whole picture.
The "hard questions" like "Why does God allow natural disasters?" I think are better understood in the context of a bible which doesn't just talk about nice things.

Interesting that you post today, in that today is the feast day of Thomas, aka doubting Thomas! Today's gospel reading is John 20:24-29, and you might feel it is apt! As for who to talk to, is there a minister/pastor/priest you could talk to? I am always happy to talk to people who approach me from my church, and talk through things. PM me if you think I can help, its often easier to share things on a 1 to 1 basis. Or another option is spiritual direction/accompaniment, where you meet with someone to discuss matters of faith (or doubt). I have a spiritual director I meet with regularly.

Re: the difference between old and new testament, I sometimes think that part of Jesus's purpose was God saying to humanity "you know, you've really got me quite wrong you know, I'm actually a God of love".

I find bits of the OT very difficult. No bright ideas but just wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

MaryBS, what do you make of the Old Testament then? When I read it (and I haven't read a lot) I often think it seems pretty crazy. The best I can make of it, and still believe in a loving God, is that the prophets didn't really know what they were talking about. That maybe even they were using their powerful position to manipulate people. But then where does that leave me in terms of faith?

Sorry, I shouldn't have really just addressed that to Mary - if anyone can enlighten me that would be great!

The Old Testament is definitely the part of my faith that I really struggle to defend when I am questioned by my friends who are non believers. It makes me very frustrated because a lot of it does seem to contradict the messages of Christ's teaching in the New Testament, and is therefore very hard to accept. I too would welcome any enlightening views on this.

I tend to see the Old and New Testament as two sides of the same coin. Matters of faith are never as black and white as they seem. Almost all of the life of Jesus as it is written in the Gospels can be traced back to fulfilling prophecies made in the Old testament. I know at least one of the bible publications does all the cross referencing (I think it might be the New English version). For what it's worth I tend to struggle more with the Pauline letters, but see them in the context of him trying to support a much persecuted minority and bolster their resolve.

Good question about the OT, and I certainly don't claim to have the answers. Firstly, I would say that the OT was written over a very long period of time, and people's views of God changed in that time. For example, how God would speak through angels, and speak directly. How incense was in favour and then it wasn't. Parts of the OT were edited to reflect a certain viewpoint (I remember studying this when I did OT studies, but can't this minute quote specific examples, of which there are many), and also sometimes conflicting beliefs were put in rather than leave anything out - the 2 creation stories for instance. Not only that, but history as we know is generally written by the victors and their stories are what are told in the bible. I simply find it hard to believe that God ordered mass genocide for instance, like in Joshua, it doesn't fit in with what Jesus taught, but it would make more sense to me if the OT writers believed it.

If you accept God as the creator then what is the difference between ordering mass genocide in Joshua and the recent devastation in Haiti and Japan, both caused by natural events?

Firstly I don't believe God ordered the mass genocide. Secondly, I don't believe he ordered/caused the devastation in Haiti or Japan. So, in that, there is no difference :)

If on the other hand, you are asking "why does God allow bad things to happen", then that is an entirely different question.

So if we know that parts of the OT were edited to reflect different view points and also that people's views of God were changing throughout it, then how does this fit with the Bible being the infallible word of God? I find the idea of the Bible being "the infallible word of God" quite a dangerous one at times. People think it gives them license to think/do/say all sorts of hateful things because of something they have read in the Bible. Discrimination against women, homosexuals, other religions etc supposedly sanctioned by the word of God. At times I so desperately want to trust in God, but I am scared off by these things.

When I had my interview for selection for lay ministry training, I was asked if I believed everything in the bible. I said "obviously not, otherwise I wouldn't be here". Personally I don't believe we're meant to take everything in the bible literally, but to look at the context.

. My comment re: selection was about Paul's instructions for "women to be silent in the churches". If I took that literally, how could I preach in church?

Thanks for your response Mary. Just wondering, did my question make you feel terse, or just the fact you are under the weather? You see I am quite scared of being frank and asking the questions on my mind in RL for fear of the response I'll get. It just doesn't seem to be the done thing to ask these sorts of questions. But if I don't ask them then I don't know how I'm ever going to get near having some kind of faith. And I do worry a bit about what my dd is being taught now on Sunday mornings. She came home with a "Bubbles" magazine with the story about Saul being the first king of the Jews and how God later "regretted" choosing him. I can't imagine there being much open questioning of the OT stories in her group.

No, whenever I feel under the weather, I find it harder to observe the social niceties :), its not you at all, I was just worried I might have given you that impression.

I run a house group, as well as regularly preaching/teaching and I encourage the sort of questioning that you ask, as it shows a searching seeking mind, and I don't believe its a bad thing at all. I certainly don't claim to have all the answers, but I do seek to answer as fully as I can. I do the same with my children, and indeed when I've run bible classes for children. I also have some great conversations with the Jehovah's Witnesses that come round. I never try to prove them wrong, but I will talk openly about what I believe and why I believe it - and we agree to disagree.

I have to admit though, not all churches encourage questioning of beliefs...

Thanks Mary, your church sounds great! Just knowing churches exist that welcome questioning minds has made me feel strangely optimistic! What area are you in out of interest? I wish all churches were as encouraging of questioning as yours sounds. I don't think the one I go to would discourage my kind of questions, but it's not exactly actively encouraged either. I'm struggling a bit to know where to turn next to satisfy my questioning mind. I'm thinking about looking for a Bible study class that might help.

I'm a Lay Reader in the C of E :), which is a broad church, and you find huge variations in beliefs anyway. But I learn myself by asking questions, and questioning what the biblical texts are all about, and reading about the historical and literary context on the passages I preach on.

Zulu, have just come across this thread, you sound serious in your searching, lots of credit to you. Unlike some of the earlier posters, I wouldn't recommend doing lots of reading, as the innumerable (and frequently conflicting) views can be very disorienting. I personally find it better to sit in stillness once a day or so, quieten my thoughts as best I can and just listen out for God. Hope you find peace of mind soon.