Godparents (I know, again)

[SnapFrakkleAndPop]

I know Godparents crop up very frequently but please bear with me and offer your thoughts/advice.

DH is RC, I'm CofE, we live abroad in an RC country, married in an Anglican church and will happily mix and match between the two. We discussed baptism broadly before we got married and the general consensus was we'd have them baptised in whichever church we felt was our home church.

We're expecting DC1 now but feel our home church isn't the one we currently attend, which is more by default than active choice (choices are limited and this was the best fit). It also has a very transient population. And is RC which is an issue for me because the priest insists on promising to raise the child RC and only having RC godparents. Now I have nothing against RCs as godparents, in fact I'd actively like at least 1 godparent to be RC, but neither DH nor I feel comfortable with that arrangement so it's 2 strikes against that church and we've talked to our old home church - who welcome us back whenever we can and we've remained part of a homegroup there which has been am invaluable support - and the vicar is happy to do the baptism, which is great but now we have a deadlock over godparents.

1 is chosen already - my best friend who I've known through church for years, committed Christian (Anglican) but very ecumenical. Slightly on the evangelical side for DH but I think he might just be a bit scared of her

Then we have 4 possibilities for a male Godparent...

1. DHs brother. I have 2 problems with this - firstly he's not very religious at all, certainly not in comparison to DH and his sister. For me a Godparent has an inextricably religious role. Secondly he's family. My 2 family Godparents have never done anything Godparently - it's all been left to my other Godparent - whereas my siblings with no family Godparents have fared considerably better. DH says he'd be fun, which is fine but he's going to be an uncle so surely he can be a fun uncle? I don't want DC to feel hard done by if there are siblings with non-family Godparents and they seem to be getting more because DC1 has a Godparent doing double duty but nor do I want DHs brother to have favourites. And it would probably iffend my siblings, but they're not religious at all and I know they wouldn't step up and talk about God. I don't think DH's brother would either but I'm willing to accept there's a chance. The plus point is he's (nominally) RC.

1. Another friend of mine. Plus points are he's religious and RC but it's another friend of mine so I think DH feels hard done by.

1. A very close friend of DH's, Anglican. He would be fun and he's gone through a tough time so it would be nice to involve him. He's quite unreliable though and liable to disappear off the face of the earth for unspecified periods of time. I'm also not entirely sure how seriously he'd take the religious side of being a Godparent.

1. Another friend of DH's. Extremely evangelical Christian and would probably be very unsupportive of anything to do with Catholicism. He's stable, (mostly) sensible and would take Godparenting seriously but it would be at a considerable distance. We don't live near any of them but he's by far the least reachable.

I have no idea how we decide. For me the number 1 priority for Godparents is religious support. I don't care what their affiliation is as long as they're a good example and willing to talk about it with DC in a balanced and supportive way. I would also like them to take a special interest in that child, which is why I've always said no family as it might lead to a perception of favouritism if they do and an uncaring Godparent if they don't.

DH sees it more as honouring important people in our lives and I know that's quite normal, to the extent that some people choose Godparents without religious consideration but I can't get my head around that.

Sorry for the essay but help?!

Have 3 Godparents in total? In which case I'd go for 2 and 3 (or possibly 1 instead of 3) out of your choices...

I had similar concerns when it came to Fraser's baptism.

If it were me I'd choose number 2.

I would wait to speak to DH face to face then ask him which he would be more comfortable with in the long run: possibly and only possibly offending family for a short time; or making your best attempt at giving your child a godparent who will support them and guide them in religious matters throughout life. It's not a popularity contest or a seating plan. It is so much more important.

My brain hurts reading that, but then that's not difficult at the moment

I am not religious in anyway whatsoever, but I do have two suggestions:

Don't discuss this on the phone with dh while he is away, it will just create bad feeling between you both. Spend the time on the phone telling each other how much you love and miss each other instead

Wait until the the baby is born and the early newborn days are over, and then worry about Godparents.

I know this is important to you (I understand that, just not the religious part!) but maybe concentrate on you and the baby at the moment.

I would have three - your friend, Dh's anglican friend (no 3) and dh's brother. Then you've got the RC represented and you both have somebody who knows you well.

BTw - how nice to read a thread about godparents where them having a personal faith is important rather than an optional extra!

Out of the 4 who is you DH's choice? It's a tough one.

We're going for 3 godparents because the family/non-family thing gets quite complicated. I'm the godparent of my niece and am really happy to be and my sister would be so gutted not to be godmother to my children but I agree, that there is nothing she would do as a godmother that she wouldn't already do as an Auntie - so same sort of arguments as you have against your DH's brother. I'd also like to include a very good friend of mine who I think would be an excellent role model and I would very much like to be part of my childs life, and DP has chosen one of his brothers who is also godfather to the two DSS's. We're all RC which makes it a lot easier on that front at least.

Without wanting to over complicate it, what would you do for a 2nd child? Would you have the same godparents or chose differently? My sister and I have different godparents which I thought was the norm, but DP has the same for both his boys which also seems quite common too?

I do sympathise Frakkle - we're members of a lovely Baptist church (who clearly don't go in for baptism! We will have a thanksgiving/dedication but no-one else at church has ever had Godparents involved) but I grew up in Methodist/Anglican churches so am keen for DC1 to have Godparents when he/she arrives.

Agree it's not worth getting upset with DH over, not whilst he's a long way away. How short a timeframe will you have for organising a baptism at your home church? Will you be able to get everyone together? If you're easy on time I'd say to leave it until DC arrives, but I gather there's a lot of travelling involved so decisions may need to be made earlier. However I do think you need to get the purpose of Godparents sorted out. I would agree with you that a GP is a spiritual supporter for the child, preferably someone out of the family as a) they'll be involved already and b) I think it's good for children to have long-lasting relationships with special adults outside the family. (My own GPs are my mum's brother and dad's sister and I was ridiculously old, about 13 or older, before I realised I had godparents, that it was anything in addition to aunty and uncle!) I would see it as essential therefore that GPs have a strong personal faith of their own, broadly in line with what I believe, although not necessarily down to the last detail.

Also sorting out the purpose of GPs will help answer the question about future DC's . More importantly if you can agree some "criteria" with DH without reference to specific people (hard, I know, when there's a selection in mind already) then you can distance the debate from "but you just don't like him" type comments! Would your vicar from your home church be able to give you some input on this?

I think the Anglican tradition is to have 3 Godparents anyway (2 same gender as baby, 1 the other sex). I'm Godmother to 2 (soon to be 3) and all have had Anglican baptisms. For 2 of them I'm one of 3 (and for 1 DH is one of the others) and for the other DH and I are one of 2 couples being GPs.

FWIW we're currently thinking of having "sponsors" for DC's dedication (who will be just like GPs) who will all be friends, just ones who we know share our faith. My difficulty is that the obvious friend candidates all live miles away and I'd like DC to have at least 1 living nearby.

I'ld agree with you on the importance of religious support, regardless of affiliation, and I would go for 2 (but I'm RC therefore possibly biased!)

Dd1 has 4 godparents - the first two were RC, my brother and his wife, but they are (a) not very religious (b) already aunt and uncle and tbh on a day to day basis the aunt and uncle role tends to eclipse the godparent role. The second two are close friends, and not RC, officially they were not 'godparents' but 'christian witnesses' (although they do appear on the baptism certificate as godparents), but as far as we are concerned they are my dd's true Godparents - although of a different denomination they have always given religious support, talked to dd1 about prayer etc., fully supported my attempts to bring my dd up as a catholic. They also play the role of secular godparents (for want of a better name) as adults outside of the family who dd1 can turn to if she needs to.

I second the opinion of those who say have extra godparents! Plus, I pretty much think that if you get to choose one then DP gets to choose one and then it's 'fair', so it's kind of up to him how he wants to play it.

i;d go church shopping. i rather think the priest varies the decision - as long as 1 gp is catholic t'other one can be whatever has been my experience

I agree with Custy in that our RC church only insists on one godparent being RC.
For DS we have DH's sister (RC but not actively so but takes her role very seriously in that she makes more fuss of DS than her other 7 nieces & nephews) and we also have my brother (v active evangelical CofE but doesn't seem too fussed to make anything of the godparent role).

IME, you can't always predict how people will be as godparents.
From what you've said, I think you really need to consider who would be your DH's choice and don't rule out the option of more than 2.

In the CofE you usually have three godparents: usually it's two godfathers and a godmother for a male child, and the other way around for a female child. We couldn't keep to that as our relevant choices of friends didn't fit, but we did always choose two of one and one of another.

I think the religious support aspect of a godparent is very important (if you practise a faith yourself).

We don't know what sex baby is so holding off the third godparent decision for now. Of course if it's a boy then I'm probably worrying unnecessarily because I could probably accept a less-than-ideal 3rd from a talking about religion perspective if we had 2 solid choices....

Point well taken about leaving it until we can discuss face to face but now the can of worms has been opened it's going round and round and round in my head. Time isn't exactly critical but it is a factor. Baby will probably need to be baptised in August or we will need to wait until December (we're currently overseas) and tbh if any of them can't make it then that's them off the list. I know we could have a proxy for them but IMO attending your the christening is duty #1!

I have no idea about a second child now. If we have DH's brother then his sister will feel left out and expect to be Godmother next time. My siblings will probably feel that way too, although they're not very religious so would be the less-than-ideal third which is a horrible thing to say about them :( We would choose different people though. I think it's nice for children to have special adults that are their special adults.

The other complicating factor is that I have several very good friends of both sexes who are active in their faith, any of whom I would be more than happy to have as a Godparent and DH doesn't really have any, save the 2 mentioned. Most of his friends who are openly Christian are mutual friends

I really don't want family involved :( as it just complicates things so much and DH clearly does, but then I suppose we could have more than 3 and have one sibling each (and hope we can have one more and don't have more than 2 children!).