atheism or agnosticism, oh the choice!

[KayHarker]

Having recently lost my faith, I'm finding myself at an impasse of exactly which way to jump. I simply don't know if there is a God or not, but I'm somewhat cowed (read scared spitless) by the utter meaningless of life if there really isn't a deity of any description.

What I'm asking for is some gentle advice from those who have already walked this path and have found a comfortable resting place.

I reckon it's always worth going along to the Quakers and thinking about these things. I believe you can be an aetheist Quaker if you like......
Just a thought. Enjoy your journey and where ever it leads you.

I lost my faith several years ago as a result of my feelings about a baby in my area who had been tortured to death by its violent father. He is now in prison in the same area that I live and I couldn't help thinking about the baby and how he must have suffered terribly and how evil the father was I used to lie awake at night, crying over it and couldn't shake the image in the newspaper of the baby, he was only 12 weeks old.

I announced there and then that there was no God and spent the next few years feeling angry about my 'discovery' and the terrible sense of injustice.

Then, gradually I began to realise that something inside me was drawing me back to the faith and that God would be grieving as much as anyone about the baby, but that we're not created to be 'puppets on strings' and that free will is our right and that some people use it for evil purposes.

Faith is part of me and there's no escape really. Even when I was a small child in care I always used to pray and talk to God even though the foster family never went near a church and were basically extremely cruel and neglectful towards me. I figured that if I hadn't turned my back on God when I was really going through it, then there was no need to turn my back on Him now.

It's normal to have doubts sometimes, it's hard not to, but I have made the decision not to turn my back on the faith because living by what it teaches is the right way to live and gives my life more meaning and purpose and just makes sense.

I know that atheism makes more logical sense on the surface, but I think that human beings have a need for belief in God for a reason and that it's been given to us as part of our very being, which is why so many people seek God and appeal to him for peace.

Perhaps you just need some time out to think about things. You could go on a retreat to allow yourself some peace to think and consider if your future lies with belief. You may sense God calling you back, or you may make a decision to move on in other ways. Retreats are a good way of considering out what lies within you and they don't ram religion down your throat, but give you space to ask questions and seek answers.

I'm sorry that I don't have any eloquent theological words of wisdom, it's just my experience and how I managed and tried to figure things out. I never spoke to anyone about it at the time, which perhaps I should.

I hope you manage to find an answer.

Thanks for your replies - any other takers?

OK. I'm an atheist, and to be honest, I find my atheism quite comforting. I don't believe that there is anything for us after this life, and as a result of that, believe that while we are living, we should make the most of the world, and be the best we can be, be kind to each other and ourselves. I think the American Humanist Association used to have the slogan "be good for goodness sake" (as opposed to for god's sake) which I think sums up my viewpoint . HTH.

Like knottyhair I too am an athiest and am so comfortable with the knowledge that there is no God, that I wish others could experience life without all the guilt of worrying about what some imaginary being might think or do or judge them with. In the grand scheme of things we are such insignificant nothings ( think about how many billions of people in the world- and how many are born and die each day) that I find it comforting to think, that when life throws obsticles in my way and it all seems to hard and too COLD ( hate this weather) that actually, it's not really all that important. As long as my friends and family are happy and healthy and I am the best person I can be to myself and my loved ones, then I am happy.

And when really horrid things happen ( murderers, babies being tortured and the like,) then I am pleased to know that it is just the individual concerned that is evil and sick and not that there is some GOD who created them to be this way, or who allowed for them to develop such free will.( and we are supposed to worship him?!) Surely if God can perform miracles and can listen to everyones inner thoughts then he can get his divine intervention into gear and intervene when these sickos are on the loose?

Luckily for me, I know that there is no such thing as GOD or any other deity that I should worship so I can focus on real people who I love and who love me back. I don't think there is any particular MEANING OF LIFE- and so i don't search for it. At the moment my meaning of life is to be the best mum and wife i can be, when I was younger,my meaning of life was the job I was doing and the friends I was with .Each day should be lived as a new day, and if you need a meaning of life- it is whatever you choose it to be on any given day.

Why would a life without deity be meaningless? You can create all the meaning you want in life - friends, family, home, the world around us. And just because you lack the religiosity that a belief in deity would give you doesn't mean you have to lose the spiritual part of your life. Drinking in a beautiful sunset can be a wonderful spiritual experience without having to believe god/s is/are behind it (Think Douglas Adams: "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?")

Atheism is my default setting - purely because I lack faith in any kind of god and have no interest in finding any as there are plenty of other reasonable and objective reasons for things being the way they are :) But being an atheist means you are free to explore other philosophies (spiritual or not): Buddhist, Humanist, Pantheist, Taoist, Secularist, Druid - you could be any or all of those and still be an atheist. Now you have the freedom, just take the time to explore

Nicely put Noctula .

And containher! (Must read properly).

Hi Kay

I read your post on the other thread and wondered what had happened. From what I understand, you've not had an easy time of it. I am a Christian and I make no apologies for that. I'm also a human being though who has a good friend who is also looking at different philosophies and religions with the aim of deciding what is for her. I'd suggest that it may be good to take your time before plumping for anything in particular; to explore all the options carefully that may be available. I think that it can be quite difficult if you adopt something wholesale and then decide later on that it is not for you.

Good luck in your search

Thanks everyone for replying - it's all good brain food :)

Just to chip in, you don't technically have to choose between atheism and agnosticism. AFAIK, atheism is about belief, agnosticism is about knowledge. Therefore I am an atheist as I don't believe in a god, but I'm agnostic because I don't claim that I have the knowledge to definitively say "There is no god/s". So agnostic atheism all the way :) Don't think Richard Dawkins approves mind you, think I found out about this way of thinking while he was slating in one of his books (The God Delusion I think).

In the same way you could be an agnostic deist or some other such title.

For me things seem very simple when you are an atheist - and very liberating. You try to be a good person, but not because you are being watched or hoping for a golden ticket for heaven, but because you believe its right to be a good person.
And nelly's right, even as an atheist you can't empirically say there is NO God, you just assume there isn't and enjoy your life. Don't worry about your label, and don't be scared either, life itself is wonderful.

Atheism doesn't even necessarily have to be about belief. It can simply be that there is absolutely no need or reason for a god or gods in your life, in the same way that there is no need or reason for any other supernatural entity. It can just simply be irrelevant.

Read the conversations with God trilogy (Neal Donald Walsh) - that is where I found most meaning, then I became a Unitarian which is hard work as there aren't many but at least you can believe what you like.

I can't believe in a God who condemns people to hell. Or who says that homosexuality is sinful.

The God Delusion is also a good book but I can't quite go that far in my own belief (or lack of)

Good luck, it must be painful moving away from a belief that was so important to you.

Here's my take on it fwiw. For much of my life I was a declared atheist, religion had no place in science (my chosen career). As I learnt more about the philosophy and practice of science I realised that a good scientist retains an open mind. You hold a belief based on the best interpretation of the evidence available to you, but you remain open to new evidence that could overturn that belief, however long held and deeply rooted it may be.

When I apply that to the existence of a god, it probably makes me an agnostic. I can't fit a god into my view of the world, but I'm happy to change my mind with the right evidence, although I don't actively look for it.

I'm comfortable with that.

I'm with AutumnWitch. It has not been proven that there is no God, therefore I have to remain open to the possibility that there is a God. Therefore I am, technically, an agnostic.

However, I think it's far far far more likely that there is no God. So I guess I'm an "agnostic with atheist overtones".

Hello, everyone else has said it already but I wanted to chip in!

I don't believe there is a god, but hey, there might be, i'll be proved wrong when some earth shatteringly convincing evidence comes along, in the mean time, I just don't believe there is and that isn't a choice.

Life is certainly not meaningless without god. I enjoy my life so much with family, friends and everything that makes it rich, it just happens that faith does not factor anywhere in that for me. As was mentioned earlier - I don't feel judged, don't have to be guilted into being a nice person and I can feel happy about myself without any niggling shoulds and oughts. My life, without god, is great. It wasn't always though and it took me figuring out what I believed to make me feel happy in myself so I can understand how this crisis of faith makes you feel.

I started out as an atheist, as a child.

Then I realized that there isn't any proof that God doesn't exist, either. In fact, a Watchmaker God (who then didn't meddle with the universe with religions etc) is a plausible theory. The other very plausible theory is that there is no God.

So I am an agnostic. It is the only logical position given that there is no proof For or Against the question of whether there is a God.

"human beings have a need for belief in God for a reason and that it's been given to us as part of our very being, which is why so many people seek God and appeal to him for peace"

Err... No we don't, no it's not, and many people don't.

CoteDAzur is right. Nobody can prove there is a God... Nobody can prove there isn t a God... There is no point either camp becoming angry with each other as everyone is entitled to their own views and both should be equally respected. The reason I lean more towards the "there is a God" camp is I find it harder to believe that the world -nature, humans,feelings etc - is all the result of an "accident", than to believe that there is a Designer who made it. I also find the "is this all there is?" approach a little bit depressing. Somehow believing in a Greater Being seems more meaningful. However, that said, I respect all viewpoints and welcome constructive discussions on the subject.