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Original poster

Atheists - Explaining death to a 4 year old...

23 replies

Blatherskite · 29/01/2011 20:57

My Grandad is going to die very soon. He was given "hours" to live on Tuesday but is hanging on, I'm expecting a phone call at any moment.

While it's Cancer that is killing him, Grandad has quite advanced Dementia too. He was taken into a care hom not long after DS was born so they've never really been able to develop any sort of relationship. DS has been to see him at the care home fairly irregularly but we live 3 hours drive away so it's hard, especially as we have a 13 month old DD too. We last saw him at Christmas.

His death would maybe pass DS by (he's not quite 4) but I'm going to be heartbroken. I adored my Grandad and he is the last of my Grandparents so when he's gone I will be no-one's Grandchild anymore so I can see me falling to pieces when the call comes and I will have to explain to DS why I'm so upset.

But what do I tell him? He's so young. I feel like telling him that Grandad is dead and gone is too harsh but I can't (like his pre-school keyworker suggested!) lie and tell him that Grandad has gone to heaven anyway when I really don't believe it! I don't want to scare or confuse him.

I'm really struggling at the moment and just can't think it through. Any words of advice would be very appreciated.

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GoldenGreen · 29/01/2011 21:33

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. It must be awful waiting for that call - I remember this happening with my grandparents Sad

My ds is 4.8 and has been asking questions about death. Not sure what has prompted it. I have told him what I consider to be the truth - that when we die our bodies don't work anymore and we are gone forever. I've said it in a gentle way and explained that when someone dies everyone else remembers them, talks about them etc. I too just cannot talk about heaven, as lovely as the concept sounds.

He is quite matter of fact about it at the moment and announces things like "when I'm 35 I will have babies and you will be dead" Charming!

However you choose to handle it, it might be worth mentioning to others (like the key worker) that you have chosen not to talk about "heaven" - it could confuse him if others tell him about it?

Maisiethemorningsidecat · 29/01/2011 21:36

So sorry to hear about your Grandad Sad

Whilst I don't believe in God, I do believe in a spiritual afterlife if that makes sense, so I wonder if you could just tell him that no-one is really sure what happens after you die. Lots of people throughout the world believe in different things, which might be an opportunity to discuss different cultures and beliefs, and say that whatever happens you know that Grandad will be happy - and leave it at that?

sfxmum · 29/01/2011 21:38

My dd, now 5 has been talking about death for a while now, she know my mother died when I was young and she knows other people die too
her view and understanding of it has changed over time and I am not completely sure she fully understands the finality of it

but I tell her people who die don't come back, they are physically gone, buried or cremated but that they live on in the people that loved them and remember them, that the important thing is to be kind love and share with our family and friends while we are here

whatever you do don't use confusing euphemisms 'like gone away' gone to sleep' etc those can really upset and confuse children far more than the plain facts

rempy · 29/01/2011 21:43

There's a picture book, badgers gifts or something, about an old wise badger who dies. His friends all sit down and recall what badger did for them, help, advice, affection. It's a good starting place even if you don't want it for bed time reading. My 4 year old is asking about death, we are very matter of fact. She is not upset by it, she knows I want to be buried in a wood, we've had a chat this week about being cremated.....

Original poster
Blatherskite · 29/01/2011 21:50

Thanks for your replys.

I think I'll try to tell him that Grandad was very, very poorly for a long time and quite old and his body stopped working. That he's gone but that we can keep him with us in our memories.

Will definitely avoid "gone to sleep" as I can see how that could give a small child nightmares!

Everytime I try to think about it, I end up crying. Can't risk winging it when the time comes as I'll be even more of a mess.

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sfxmum · 29/01/2011 21:57

I am sorry Blatherskite it will not be easy but again don't worry too much about showing emotion, sadness is part of life, at that age they start understanding their emotions more and occasionally being overwhelmed by them in a whole different way than when they were toddlers
only thing I say is be prepared for questions about mummy dying and he himself dying, it is normal and natural but occasionally can be hard to handle, emotionally at least, simple and truthful is the way to go I think

take care
x

BerryinClover · 29/01/2011 22:11

Blatherskite I like your solution. 'Gone' or even 'gone away' is truthful. I've been trying to make a will recently (in my 60's), and this induced me to simplify and tidy up my house as well, thinking that eventually someone will have to go through my things. The tidying-up and storing has felt just like preparing for a journey.

Original poster
Blatherskite · 29/01/2011 22:27

I think I've found the book rempy, "Badger's Parting Gifts"?

My only worry with "gone" is that it leaves open the question "gone where?" and I'm not sure how to answer that one. Daddy goes to work everyday and I don't want to worry him.

I hope you've got many, many more years to accumulate and clear things yet BerryinClover.

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TitusOates · 29/01/2011 22:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mylifewithstrangers · 29/01/2011 22:37

DD (nearly 4) loves 'The Lion King' film and it has helped her worked through some of her feelings about death, and given her the whole 'circle of life' vocabulary to explore her feelings.

She still frequently asks me not to die though Sad - all stems from our cat dying about a year ago.

ChippingInSmellyCheeseFreak · 29/01/2011 22:44

Blatherskite - I'm really sorry about your Grandad and no matter how old you are, it's still a blow not to be someones Grandaughter anymore :(

I would avoid gone/gone away - as 'Where?' is the next logical question. Why not just say 'He died'?

I don't believe in God (or anyone/any thing else!) but we settled on He died and he's Gone to Heaven' because it's simple and other people say it to them - it just seemed less confusing for them - they can decide when they are older what they think can't they...

It's probably different as Grandad was a part of their daily life :( so of course they wanted to know why he wasn't there anymore, at least your Son has a bit of distance from it which is sad in one way and yet easier in another.

FWIW - I choose to believe there is a life after this one, simply because there are people I want to see - this comforts me now, if it turns out to be wrong, then I wont know will I Wink

MrsCadwallader · 30/01/2011 11:48

I'm so sorry to hear about your grandad.

My own (atheist) grandparents would always say that no-one is truly gone until their memory is also gone. That is, although they are no longer physically with us, they remain with us for as long as someone remembers them and stay 'alive' in all of the people whose lives they touched, and who they loved and were loved by.

Original poster
Blatherskite · 30/01/2011 19:57

LOL, Chipping, I guess by the time you find out, it won't matter anymore :)

I think the same as your Grandparents MrsCadwaller. "Heaven" for me is being remembered fondly by those who loved us and living on in thier memories. Grandad for me will always live with my Grandma in the house they shared and loved - that's probably his idea of Heaven too. I'm worried that the concept is a little to much for a 4 year old to grasp though?

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Original poster
Blatherskite · 31/01/2011 07:58

Grandad died around Midnight last night.

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youtalkingtome · 31/01/2011 08:02

I'm so sorry for your loss Blatherskite.

MrsCadwallader · 31/01/2011 08:11

I'm so sorry.

ChippingInSmellyCheeseFreak · 31/01/2011 14:05

I'm so sorry :(

Bigggg HUGS

Don't worry too much about DS, it will all work out OK, look after yourself x

curiouserandcuriousersaidalice · 31/01/2011 15:35

So sorry to hear your news,

I second the recommendation of the book "Badger's Parting Gifts", I used it with my 3 yr old dd when my Grandmother died.

cestlavie · 31/01/2011 15:51

Sorry to hear Blatherskite.

Couple of thoughts. Firstly, my dad died a couple of years back when DS was 3. He was probably a little too young to get it but I just explained it along the lines of:

  • Grandpa was very poorly and old (DS had seen him in hospital quite a few times)
  • he's died and so sadly we can't see him any more
  • but we always remember him and how special he was

DS (now 5) does ask quite a lot of questions from time to time about him, maybe because we make sure we talk about my dad still (e.g. "GP would have been so proud to see you doing that" or "You know, GP was really good at doing that")

He does ask where he's gone and I just say when people die they're gone, so they can't be with us anymore, but we never forget them.
I always keep it matter of fact, make sure he understands that he was old and poorly (so he doesn't think it might happen to say daddy or mummy) and tell him the truth.

At the end of the day, I don't think he really gets it - when you talk about death with him I don't think he knows what death means - more that the person isn't around our world anymore rather than 'dead' and that it's permanent but he does say little sweet random things like "GP must be sad he can't be here for my birthday". Sort of like that person is alive somewhere but in another world maybe? But hey, who actually does get what death means?

Hope that helps

Good luck with everything over the next few days and weeks.

jaffacake79 · 31/01/2011 15:54

Tell him the truth - that you're very sad that your Grandad is so sick, and then when the time comes that he has died. Explain that you're sad because of how you're feeling, he'll understand in his own way and then just answer any questions he has honestly from there.

SlightlyTubbyHali · 31/01/2011 16:02

I'm sorry for what you're going through Blatherskite.

My grandmother died last week and I just said to my 4 year old that "G was very old and had been poorly, and now she has died". My DD cried immediately but hasn't asked anything since. I think if she asked where she has gone I would explain that noone really knows, some people think that when we die we go to heaven, but some people think that when we die we are just gone forever, and I'll ask her what she thinks. I suspect she'll supply the "right" answer for her.

CoteDAzur · 31/01/2011 16:05

Blatherskite - I'm sorry about your loss Sad

I tried to explain death to DD (5 yo) through flowers in our vase "getting old" and dying. I find this worked pretty well as an analogy for death (from atheist viewpoint) as she understood that death is final and that you don't go anywhere afterwards.

Original poster
Blatherskite · 31/01/2011 20:52

That's a good analogy Cote, I might try using that one.

It's not come up so far today. I've been feeling more numb than tearful so Ds hasn't really noticed that anything is wrong.

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