Edgars learning thread

[EdgarAleNPie]

i have decided to refresh my knowledge of the worlds religions. the only way to stay in target is to have it in 'threads I'm on' and have a promp to stop any backsliding...

so last night i commenced 'Understanding Islam' -

stuff i remember this morning -

to be 'Muslim' = be as God intended. therefore a rock or tree is muslim whatever it is or does. A person is only Muslim however if they choose to be as God intended. How you know you are as God intended - God sent out prophets to every people on the Earth. The Qu'ran lists 25 prophets, the first is Adam, in fact 21 are biblical characters (Abaham, Moses, Jesus and John the baptist)

To be a prophet generally means one in receipt of revelation from God. Prophets are regarded as sinless, at least in so far as their being a prophet goes - though majority opinion is that they are sinless in every way (thus the sin of Adam is regarded as the Will of God, or a non-sin as they weren't conscious of evil then,)

the duties of a Muslim 'the five pillars of Islam'

Shahadan - the key profession of faith 'there is only one God (one thing worthy of worship) and Mohammed is his prophet' - so an anti-idolatry profession, but also an invocation against e.g the worship of money.
Salat - five times daily prayer - facing Mecca (though early practice was prayer to Jerusalem, and 'for the first 16 months in Medina' - then in the direction of the Qa'ba) - planes for e.g Brunei air show you which direction to pray!
Zakat - charity - purification of wealth by donation of 2.5% to chairty (specific groups, i'm gusessing widows, orphans as per bible?)
Sauwm - fasting in Ramadan - a month of abstention fom food & sex - to emphasise 'taqwa' or god-consciousness by ranscending the demands of flesh (these things still seen as good)
Haj - the pilgrimage to Makka - if healh and wealth allow -

the pilgrimage involves changing into simple clothes, within short distance of the qa'ba
running between two hills (remembrance of Hagar and Ismail)
Qurban (can be done remotely, as cash rather than actual sacrifice) sacrifice of animal -
throwing stones at two pillars (remembrance of temptation of Abraham and Ismail by the devil))
people often die on the Haj - seen as honour - it is physically gruelling. people generally make a will and set their affairs in order beore going.
famous Haji - Malcolm X - put aside black supremacy when he went on Haj as he felt conscious of 'oneness of humanity'.
M. also made pilgimages..

sunni - 90% of Muslims - don't believe in succession from Mohammmed.
shi'a - 'shia'a Ali' - party of Ali - succession from son in law - Fatimas husband Ali - and 12 Imams after him the last one being a six year old boy who gave council without appearance following acession for 67 years, then went to God - is not dead - return of 12th is awaited by Ayatollahs....(or 5ers or 7ers for earlier splinter groups)

the life of M.

started ff as cow herder - married Khadijia (his employer) met 'Jibril' (gabriel) who asked him to 'ikrit' (recite) which he said he couldn't do...jibril advances and says 'ikrit' again - M. explains he can't as is 'ummi' - unlearned. Jibril embraces him.

Khadijia calls in her Christian cousin, who explains this as revelation from God.

Khadijia - one wife, sons born but died, mother to Fatima. after hr death he marries 12 others for varying reasons. (Qu'ran allows 4 so long as they can b treated fairly, prophet gets special exemption as he is an exemplar..)

...there i run out. need to remember the bit about all the battles, the second revlation, the pilgrimages, etc etc.

timeline wouldn't hurt.

Hi Edgar,
DD was asking about islam the other night and I was trying to explain it in relation the other world religions and was getting rather muddled.
ANy chance you can provide a summary of the worlds religions in which a 6 year old can understand. I'd be REEEEAAAALLLLY grateful.

THANK YOU

WW

islam is one the religions from the Middle East - Judaism, Islam and Christianity all have the same root.

Judaism is the faith practiced by the Hebrews - a tribe from the middle east - the faith emphasises family ties and the rule of law.

from this sprang christianity (the followers of Jesus) - Christians believe in one God, with jesus Christ as son and saviour of humanity.

and Islam (the followers of Mohammed) - core belief - theRe is only one God and Mohammed is his prophet.

al thRee religions share a written history up to a point, and belief in a single all-mighty God.

Buddhist - believes in the sanctity of life rather Than a God.

Hindu - belives in many Gods, though they are all aspects of God.

Shinto - ancestor worship, with a pantheon of gods too.

actually, probably the best way to explain would be to tell a story from each faith.

and i need to check that about shinto/ confucianism

WOW Edgar - excellent summary - thank you so much.

Its such a comprehensive list! you missed out the Bahai faith which is one religion I can't ever simply explain to anyone.

ok - additiona and corrections to the above -
the clothing worn on Hajj is called 'ihram' - the importance of ihram is that it emphasises the oneness of humanity (women would be immodest in two white sheets, but its in the same spirit)
Hajj can be done on five days a year -
the order being
1}tawaf - 7 times anticlockwise round the qa'ba
2)sa'y - running between two small hillsal-saf al-marwa - seeking providence & mercy - - then drink of waters of spring of Zamzam.

3. visit mount of mercy and plain of Arafat - to beg forgiveness 1)recognise sin 2)end the sinful practice 3)resolve that they won't sin again (god willing) 4)make recompense

4)stoning the pillars
5) sacrifice
6)repeat tawaf

the importance of the Qa'ba - it was built by ibrahim and ismail and has a rockbrought by Jibril in it - this white rock turned black in a time of idolatry before M.s prophecy.

there is a really good story i nee to find again about the Qa'ba and Mohammed.

ah, here it is..
from wikipedia

. A story found in Ibn Ishaq's Sirah Rasul Allah tells how the clans of Mecca renovated the Kaaba following a major fire which had partly destroyed the structure. The Black Stone had been temporarily removed to facilitate the rebuilding work. The clans could not agree on which should have the honour of setting the Black Stone back in its place. They decided to wait for the next man to come through the gate and ask him to make the decision. That individual happened to be the 35-year-old Muhammad, five years before his prophethood. He asked the elders of the clans to bring him a cloth and put the Black Stone in its centre. Each of the clan leaders held the corners of the cloth and carried the Black Stone to the right spot. Then Muhammad himself set the stone in place, satisfying the honour of all of the clans

i think this is pretty indicative of the nature of the man - judicious, one gifted with imagination and one who could unite peoples...thats a story a 6 year old would understand.

and just for you, the Baha'i are a separatist Islamist group - a splinter group -from Shi'a Islam, following the teaching of Mirza Hussei Ali Nuri (1817 - 92) who identifies Sayyid Ali Muhammed (1819-50) as the returned Hidden Imam mentioned above (the 12th Imam) (Baha Allah = glory of God)

they view Mohammed as the seal of the prophets, but allow that there may be furher prohets to do new work..

..

'the Baha'i see the Baha'Allah as inaugurating a new age in which the community of the human race will become the main arena of action, moving towards world government and stressing the equality of all humans and of men and women.'

the schedule of prayer is less imporant than experiencing religion, meditating etc.

Theya re a signiciant miority in Iran where they have been persecuted as Muslim heretics and not under the traditional protection of non-Muslims (xians, Jews being 'people of the book' and therefore subject to additional taxation, but not persecution)

Dh thinks Nickel would turn black, an could have been in a meteorite. interesting.

Goodness, Mr Poe.

notes the divine Hull is watching, but attempts to plough through Scholarly Works undistracted

I have been researching all things Islam (particularly the history of the Hajj) meself, as dd has been doing a project thusly, and I helped - even tho she didn't want me to and indeed ignored all my most helpful pointers and researches.

Wisteria we have a really fantastic book by Dorling Kindersley which is not only a big and beautifully illustrated book, but gives a very good overview of all the world's mainstream religions plus most of the accepted but less mainstream ones as well (like Bahai etc.)

It is not written specifically for young children but it is very xhild friendly and is the sort of book that will give you basic pointers that you can discuss with her. I bought it donkey's years ago - not sure if it's still in print. Will look on Amazon for you.

What i learned last night -

The Qu'ran

was recited by Mohammed over the course of 23 years. It is seen as he Word of God, given through Mohammed - ithis not his authorship anymore than my coputer is the author of this post. It is in Aramic as that was the language understood by Mohammed and his people - it would have been nonses to send it in any other language.

It includes a history of the people, from the time of Adam alike to that covered by the Old Testament but differing in that it covers th children of Ishmail rather than those of Isaac.

From the Muslim perspective any differences are because he Qu'ran is correct, sent by God so that humanity could live exactly acording to Gods will - the bible & torah may have it mostly right, but the Qu'ran is authoritative where they differ.

e.g inthe case of David and Uriah of the Hittites (he has him killed in battle so that he can have his wife) - this didn't happen as David is a prophet and therefore without sin. not included in the Qu'ran...

The book is kept in the lingua franca of the time of Mohammed, Aramaic - written like Hebrew wihout vowels. As children learn to read using it it has acted as a linguistic ancho - people can still undersand i in the langage it is written if they speak and understand modern Arabic. The perfect condiion f he Qu'ran is regarded as he primary miracle of the faith.

The book should be treated with reverence - it should be at the top of any bookcase or stack of books it is stored in, there is a ritual of handwashing before touching the book.

there is an interesting instance of the Saudi Arabian flag being used on a Fast Food chain promotion and all packaging being recalled as there is a verse of the Qu'ran on the front of said flag - they were disposed of in a careful and respectful fashion. People wear lockets with script fromt eh Qu'ran as amulets of protection (though it is he Qu'ran itself that is holy - note that this is not an idolatous practice)

The Qu'ran is not designed to be a straight forward textbook merely to be obeyed - but a
book where various verses may offer guidance - the Qu'ran itself advises people o dicuss its contents and reflect on them rather than accepting them in a crude literal sense.

salman Rushie got into trouble because of the bit in his book 'The SatanicVerses' wher a person touched the Qu'ran without washing hands.

The history of Islam

Mohammedunited the people of the immediate area, who were culturally similar though no means ientical. Then there was a vast expansion of this area into an Islamic Empire (strictly it was several empires) - first it expanded as the Roman Empire receded. It took territory and maintained the culture of learning (in Dark Ages Europe the roman/Greek knowledge was often lost) - notable there was a real flourishing of learnign in Islamic Spain for Muslims, Xians, Jews alike (Thomas Aquinas, Moses Maimonides, Idn, Al-???) - inventions - binoculars, camera, trignomoetry, polynoial functions (to aid in Islamic will-divisons!)

there is no difficulty between science and religion in Islam - if science seems to differ, then they need to go back and study again ....to better discover Gods universe....

notable -
The Ottoman EMpire Turkey, former Byzantium, North Africa and Europe as far as Vienna
The Spanish Empire - The grat Mosque of Cordoba having a huge library of some 300000 tomes...
the Moghuls - in India

The features of these area -

When capturing land, the Muslims were under orders to not harm women or children, or men that laid down arms, and not to harm places of worship.

(how much this was adhered to varies of course! this was a vey brutal time in history - Ottoman = Othman = legbreaker)

Resident Jews, Xians were allowed to continue their religious practice, paying an additional rate of taxation - fellow believers in the one God.

The crusades -

the religious war waged by the followers of The Pope, including the retaking of Jerusalem - viscious slaughter of Jews & Muslims alike in this time. this has coloured relations between the faiths since.

now there's an understatement and a half.

hully - if she's like my daughter as soon as she has the first idea how to do things, she insists that it is hers to do....

she'll be telling you how to MN next :)

Interestingly, Edgar, the pope called for the first crusade to unite catholics against a common enemy, Muslims, as catholicism was about to split in two. And did anyway. So that was a good idea. Before that, they all got along lovely (ish).

Very much recommend Karen Armstrong's biography of the bible (The Bible: A Biography). Is most fascinating.

I have just ordered it from Amazon. I have borrowed back my old philsoophy/religion book from my brother & his wife, and there are some major holes in the areas covered : any books on Hinduism and Sikhism anyone can recomend?

Sikhs are great. They started to form a loving alliance between Muslims and Hindus...something else that worked out real good. They have some fab rules and great knickers.

They started with the intention that should be. They wanted to be all bonding and bridge-like.

Wow - who needs Wikipedia when you have an Edgar in your midst.
THank you for your summary of the Bahais.
I once read a book about them and got v confused about Big Bab and Little Bab. All v odd. Your version is much clearer.

A quick question - why haven't we had any prophets in recent times? Why did they stop with Jesus and or/ Mohammed? I can't ever answer that question.

WW

Thanks for the DK recommendation. I will look out for it in the library.