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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

If you're not religious . . .

26 replies

hmmSleep · 06/12/2010 20:00

what do you tell your dcs about Christmas?

Dh and I are atheists. Dd (4yrs)came home from school saying she needed a blue costume for the Christmas play because she's the baby's mummy, figured this meant she was playing Mary.

Felt I should fill her in a bit on the nativity story and why people celebrate Christmas. Admittedly to date she thinks it's all about Santa, decorations and presents.

I told her that some people believe in a thing called God, that Jesus is God's son and Christmas day is Jesus' birthday. I said that her Dad and I think this is just a story, but lots of people think it's true. She then said that she thinks it's true. I told her that was up to her to decide.

Interested to hear what other people do?

OP posts:

Limara · 06/12/2010 20:41

We told our DD (8) AND DS (13) the same thing. Seems a reasonable explanation.

Only recently though, I've done the Alpha Course and now I class myself as a Christian.

Bit of background:
Catholic from birth
Then athiest for 8-10 years
Now Christian(I'm in my 40's)

I'd like my DD to go to Sunday school to find out about God but she's having none of it. Having said that, my DH and I have said they can make they're minds up when they're older.

Original poster

hmmSleep · 06/12/2010 20:52

Do you think most children end up with the same beliefs as their parents? I know a few atheists with very religious parents, but only one friend who is a devout christian but with atheist parents.

OP posts:

Limara · 06/12/2010 21:05

Do you think most children end up with the same beliefs as their parents? it's a difficult answer........

I don't think we helped our DC's with our athiest views if I'm honest....

I'm cringing a bit because I may have discredited religion with the odd comment instead of being unbiased.

It's come and bit me on the bum tbh as my DD who was slightly believing in Reception-YR2 because of nativity plays etc, now won't entertain the idea of religion.

I should have given both sides and not felt tempted to air my own views on the matter. Am I making sense?

Sops · 06/12/2010 21:21

When she was in reception my dd also said she believed in god (because she'd heard about it at school). Luckily ds said he believed in god too, the egyptian gods! I pointed out that most of the ancient egyptians believed in those gods too but very few people do now. Once upon a time no-one had even heard of the christian god although lots of people believe in it now. I went on to tell them about the many other gods that feature in popular religions. I hope that gives them the idea that there are many, many different viewpoints esp in religion.

Limara · 06/12/2010 21:28

Sops that is what I should have done in hindsight but my mouth got the better of me. Now, if my kids ask me about what I did in church, I tell them but I don't preach to them.

Portofino · 06/12/2010 21:38

I have gone down the "some people believe" route too. Dd has an entirely secular education. She also has many muslim classmates so we have also covered the "some people believe" from that side too.

To me though, the nativity is SO much a part of Christmas even on a cultural level that you have to offer an explanation. We live in predominantly catholic country so it is unavoidable really.

KnittingisbetterthanTherapy · 06/12/2010 21:43

Will definitely go down the "some people believe" line too. My DC are too young to ask at the moment, but when they do I will tell them it's a story and not something mum and dad believe.

This is what I tell kids at school (except without the mum and dad thing obviously! ).

I have also never met Christian children from atheist parents, but we'll see . . .

Gracie123 · 06/12/2010 21:51

I was a christian child with atheist parents, but they are christian now. DH is a christian with atheist parents.

My DCs are going to be brought up going to church and hopefully making a decision themselves at a reasonable age, but I understand the predicament over christmas because we don't believe it was when Jesus was born and don't want to teach our children that!!

It's a thorny issue because most people don't take the bible that literally, so they assume that just because we are christian we believe the same as them and will celebrate whatever they do, but we are probably what you'd call 'fundamentalists'.

Christ was born during Sukkot (the jewish festival of booths) and there are so many important prophecies fulfilled through that that I cannot understand why christians want to confuse the issue and pretend he was born in the middle of winter.

DCs are still pretty small, but it is hard to explain to them why there are nativity scenes everywhere and why other people keep telling them it's Jesus' birthday!

Portofino · 06/12/2010 21:53

Actually I believe Jesus existed. The story might be hyped up a bit, but still...

.So people used to celebrate because it was the darkest part of the year and they wanted the sun to come back, then Jesus was born, and many people believe that he is really special, so we celebrate that too. And then of course Father Christmas etc etc.

Gracie123 · 06/12/2010 21:56

Don't get me started on father christmas!!

I thought it would just be a fun christmas tradition but DS is terrified! Absolutely hates him and when they brought out all the decorations in town he started pointing at the santas and reminding me that he didn't want 'that man to come to our house'. He told me he didn't want him last year, but FiL wouldn't believe me and insisted on dressing up anyway...

KnittingisbetterthanTherapy · 06/12/2010 21:58

My understanding was that the church weren't happy about the pagan celebrations of winter festival and so took it as their own, hence randomly moving Jesus' birthday to the middle of winter!

I will have to keep my children away from Christians then just in case .

KnittingisbetterthanTherapy · 06/12/2010 21:59

What a shame Gracie . What on earth has made him afraid of FC?

pozzled · 06/12/2010 22:03

DD is too young for it to be a problem at the moment, but we'll probably say something very similar to the OP- it's what some people believe.

Actually, like Portofino I do believe that Jesus existed, as a man- so I can honestly say that I believe some parts of the story are true. I just don't believe that he was the son of God.

Gracie123 · 06/12/2010 22:07

Not sure, I told him he was going to come down the chimney and leave presents and he started crying and saying he didn't want him to. I thought it might be better if we met him first, so took him to the rugby club christmas party, where he hid and refused to talk to santa! They even had a present with his name on, but he cried and wouldn't go near it. Santa ended up sort of throwing across the room but he screamed and ran like it was a bomb!

I'm really not sure what is so scary, but maybe it's the beard? or the fact that he comes in the night?

I don't think Santa is going to visit our house this year (if I can control parents!) and hopefully he'll be a little be braver next year. Can't see younger DD enjoying Santa if her big brother hates him.

Blu · 06/12/2010 22:08

For Christmas, start with Christ - 'a very important man whose teachings helped lots of us think about things - many people are called christians because they believe Christ to be the son of God -his ideas have led to lots of things that are very important to us, so the day Christains celebrate as his birthday is very important and a good time for everyone to celebrate and be kind to others'.

I'm an atheist,and Ds is older than your dd, I'm talking to him about carols now - he was complaining about 'In The deep midwinter' being boring and too slow - I sang it much faster (most carols benefit from a bit of oomph or tempo) and then we talked about it being a rather beautiful description of winter, and even if you aren't a Christian it is a joyful message because it is about what everyone can give as being of equal value.

KnittingisbetterthanTherapy · 06/12/2010 22:09

That's so sad, it's such a magical part of Xmas - hope he'll grow out of it.

Gracie123 · 06/12/2010 22:09

me too

TotallyUnheardOf · 06/12/2010 22:46

Gracie... My dd1 is terrified of clowns, which I know is not the same as FC but I think it's for similar reasons. She has always been scared of them and is now 10 and still hates them (though she doesn't run screaming from the room any more!). Does FC being your ds presents? Maybe he'd be less freaked if FC left his presents on the doorstep or something rather than him coming down the chimney? You could start a whole new family tradition!

LittlePushka · 06/12/2010 23:11

Hi mmmsleep! There are some great things posted on this thread. I think that the approach you are taking is a fair one to take for your family. I especially loved the post from blu. I am a Christian but i love to talk to folk of their beliefs and I embrace and respect their choice - (knitting: The Church may well have a party line about paganism and other world religions but there is not a Christian I know who would not love to chat with a pagan over a pint!!).

Within our family DH and I (and the wider family) often have very opposite points of view on many many issues and so the same sort of thing arises throughout the year, not just in relation to christmas. We have to talk about different views without condemning or polarising them - a live and let live sort of deal if you see what I mean.

NonnoMum · 06/12/2010 23:16

LOADS of kids are terrified of FC. Haven't you ever seen "You've been Framed"? DH reckons it's the red and white colours.
BTW, whether you are religious or not, there is tons of historical evidence for Jesus (more so than for Julius Caesar).

Gracie123 · 07/12/2010 07:25

Glad to know its not just my son!

Nonno is right - there is no chance, historically speaking, that Jesus didn't exist. The question is whether or not he is God. Wonder how many people teach their children that? My dad used to tell me he was just a 'good man', but I don't know many others who weren't taught either a) he was God or b) he didn't exist.

Snorbs · 07/12/2010 09:36

More historical evidence for Jesus than Caesar? I know that's an oft-repeated line but it's simply untrue. There are commentaries on Caesar's military campaigns written by the man himself. There is at least one remaining bust of him that was made in his lifetime, not to mention the numerous coins minted at the time and bearing his likeness. There are also a very significant number of accounts of Caesar's actions and speeches by people who were there at the time.

By contrast, no-one knows what Jesus looked like, there are zero known documents that were written by him, and the vast majority of the evidence for what he said and did are in the books of the New Testament. Books that weren't written for some time after Jesus's death with (at least in some cases) debatable authorship and that have been subject to a hell of a lot of editorial changes.

Now, if you'd said "There is more evidence for the existence of Jesus than Alexander the Great" then you'd be on to something. But Caesar? Nah, not a chance.

Unprune · 07/12/2010 09:41

We say that in various places, it's traditional to have a midwinter celebration; that in Britain it used to be called Yule and was celebrated when paganism was most popular; and that at the moment Christianity is relatively popular, which explains why they do the nativity at school; and that who knows what'll be popular in a few hundred years' time?

Gracie123 · 07/12/2010 11:02

not exhaustive but gives a good idea of how silly it is to claim Jesus as a person never existed

KnittingisbetterthanTherapy · 07/12/2010 13:15

Hmm, true about lots of kids being frightened of FC, but perhaps not to the extent described by Gracie. My DS wasn't impressed last year but he was only 18 mths! Now, at 2 1/2 he is much happier about the concept, but yet to meet the big man again .

As for whether JC existed or not, it's kind of irrelevant to the whole "believing the son of god" stuff isn't it?

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