Who does what in your church?

[NoseyNooNoo]

I'm a member of my Church Council. Earlier this week I endured a l o n g meeting which raised a number of grievances from the older members of the congregation - music too modern (which is really isn't), services too noisy, not enough being done for them. Comments were also made such as 'Where are all the young mums who are sat around at home doing nothing' when it came to comments about who could do what and 'we'll leave and take our money' when it came to whether music should revert to a wholly traditional style. It was even made clear that me and my 2 pre-schoolers weren't welcome at the weekday service and that the Mothers Union is really a Grandmothers Union.

In my church not much gets done because there aren't a sufficient number of people prepared to take responsbility for anything although many say they would help out if someone else took the initiative. At my old church much was done by the retired members for themselves and others within the congregation. Every mother and toddler group I go to is organised by older church members but my church doesn't have one.

I know I'm rambling but I feel quite disheartened by it all. It felt so un-Christian. I'm not sure it can be my spiritual home. It just seems so negative, protectionist.

Are my expectations that the older ones should do more than criticise and make threats to leave unrealistic?

Hi Nosey,
We've struggled with this at our church too - for a while there was an active cohort of retired people who organised everything, but many of them have left, some have become ill or died, and it has gone a bit flat.

To be honest, I'm not sure that it was a particularly healthy situation when the retired people ran everything. It became a little bit cliquey. We are now working on the principle that it is everyone's responsibility to make the parish community work. It's hard sometimes, some people don't want to get involved, but if we want a spiritual family we need to work at it as we would work at any other family. It's really a case of changing the culture of the parish from one in which people expect things to be organised for them, to one in which we all take some responsibility for getting things done.

Can you not organise a mothers and toddlers group? I find groups often work better if they are organised by the people who use them?

In our church, most things are run by the people who use them - thus a committee of mums runs the Mother and Toddler group (with help from a lot of older ladies who are "aunties" and provide childcare etc), most youth stuff is run by the youth (with adult help), the Senior Citz meeting is run by them. People have real ownership in what they are involved with. Also, things aren't imposed and "the way we always did it" - because things tend to evolve as the people involved change, if that makes sense.

It does sound like protectionism though, especially over the music (would drive me mental!)

In church, as in many other parts of life, if you want something doing you have to do it yourself! Not being welcome at services is not on though - did someone actually say this to you?

BUt not all churches are for all people - I know I couldn't go to a very traditional church - we're part of a happy clappy Baptist congregation with modern music etc .... Are there any other local churches you could try?

Thanks for responding.

I'm not sure what I can do and I'm not sure I can be bothered now that it seems that it would be unappreciated and moaned about. I'm having to think whether it is the church for me although I did 'road-test' a few before I committed to this particular church.

It is a quite an aged church so I'm not sure how much physical support I would receive from my piers if I did do something to change things.

Weegiemum - re: not being welcome, an older lady said that she couldn't understand why only older ladies went to the weekday service. I siad that I had assumed that I would be unwelcome since my children would break the tranquility of the service. She then clearly remembered who my children are (typical lively pre-schoolers) and agreed with me, as did someone else.

I'm not used to being is an unsupportive church.

weegiemum, I agree entirely with your post. My church is a very new and young church (although obviously we have older people there too!!) As you say, many of the groups eg the children's groups, are run by mums and dads whose kids use them. Many people seem to do things according to their talents whatever they may be.

The Pastor is full of energy and in his 30s which may influence the direction of things a lot. About once a month we have guest preachers which I love as I think it helps to get a different perspective on how other churches operate.

I must admit, I wouldn't enjoy the church set up you describe, OP. I want to go to church filled with enthusiasm and joy, not feeling despondent about it. I would be looking for another church

I think one of the hardest things is the handover from the older members of the congregation to the younger ones. It is harder nowadays in that most younger mums work, whereas the older ones might never have WOH.

You have to be sensitive.

I think one of the best ways to approach the problem is to be apprenticed to an older member - get them to show you what they do, and respect them for it.

The other thing is to use your older people when you can - get them to make tea at the Mother & Toddler group, or just come to chat with some of the mums. They are often happy to prepare crafts for the toddler service or for sunday school. And make sure that they pray for you.

On the flip side, help them wherever you can. Make cakes for the 'Songs of Praise' services (and just go along with the fact that they want real table cloths instead of Banquet Roll). Pick them up and take them shopping. Take your toddlers to visit them at the day centre.

The music thing is really hard. If you are all in one service, then you have to have a mix. Have a hymn at the beginning and end, and praise songs in the middle.

One of the things that I have benefitted from immensely is a women's bible study where all women (who are at home in the day) can come together. You have to provide a creche for this. The wisdom of the older people is something to really value, and they will also benefit from your energy.

With any conflict, it is often a case of not having personal relationships with one another, and there are many ways of building these.

In our church everyone is encorouged to do something if they are able. There are a mixture of ages from little babies right up to over 80's.
The youth take turns in serving coffee after the service.
But as with a ot of churches there are always some people who don't seem to do anything

These older people don't seem to have much grace, and the attitude of 'i'll go and take my money' is shocking!

It is so important for a church to be a family, and families have different ages and generations.