Alpha - anyone starting the course this Autumn?

[newbeliever]

Hi everyone, I mentioned on another thread about starting a thread for Alpha newbies.

I have signed up to do the course this Autumn, starts Tuesday, 28th September. Was quite surprised when I rang the parish office, there are about 40 people on the course - and it's for 3 hours each week - I was thinking 2 hours max! They start the evening off with dinner and drinks before moving onto the topic for the week. How do your churches run the course?

Thought it would be nice to share our thoughts each week in a safe place - I'm worried about not knowing what to say or just not understanding the topic so would be good to have some fellow MNr's on the journey too.

Anyone else want to join me?

Hi Willowfae - glad I'm not the only one up late tonight .

I think that final step you are talking about is all about faith - I still had some niggles and doubts, but decided to go for it and take that step and I'm so glad I did.

Does your church offer a follow-on course? There are a few from my group who don't feel they've taken that final step yet who will be going on the 'Moving on' course. One of the issues we had in our Alpha group was that the discussion time was just not long enough - apparently on the next course the discussion time is much longer.

I'll have a bit more of a think for you and will pray for you when I go to bed tonight - which will be v soon, feeling tired now .

Also, I found this book really helpful.

The Purpose Driven Life [Hardcover]
Rick Warren

Hi nb and willow

I'd love to carry on talking it through. I'm actually leading a 'beta' course in January too with my seekers group so it will be great to carry on thinking through the issues.

Willow, I'm sure you'll know the right time. Don't force yourself but if you are feeling that spark of something it might be worth taking that step and seeing what happens. In the end it is a bit of a leap off the cliff but honestly, it's amazing, and will be life transforming in a good way. Keep on reading round and taking it all in, talking it through here and pondering. I'm praying for you.

Hi WillowFae

Compared to many of the others who have posted on this thread I am not a mature Christian but this maybe gives me a slightly different perspective. Like you, I grew up in a Christian family. I drifted away from the church in my first few years at Uni. I came back to believe in God veeeeery slowly and it took me even longer to decide to become a Christian. For me, it was very difficult for me to say that I wanted to give up control of my life and hand it over to God. In addition, I am a very quiet person and, like you, was afraid people would think I was an idiot. Maybe they did, but no one said it directly to my face although I did have had a couple of discussions with folk when it was clear they thought I was nuts. In general, people were much more accepting of my position than I thought they would be. You may well find the same. I'm not entirely sure what it is I'm trying to say, but I hope some of this rambling is helpful. Please do keep posting. I'm not very good at the theological side of things but I'll do my best!

A very quick post to say I would also love to keep up these discussions. Perhaps we need a new 'Post-Alpha' thread title

Just wanted to make a very quick observation - I went to church last night, not my usual church but a very traditional Catholic service in a huge, beautiful old building. I found it so hard to 'feel' God there :( As I was listening to the choir I prayed that God would make himself known to me in this church as well as in my own. After all, God is the same wherever we worship, but I found it so hard whereas in my own church, I feel surrounded by love and happiness and God's spirit.

Not sure what I'm trying to say other than obviously I'm happy to have found a church which I love. But I almost felt a fraud last night, for surely God is everywhere and why can I feel him in one place, yet I couldn't even feel him in my heart in another? Last night simply felt like words and ritual

Oh but off to my usual church in an hour, so hopefully will be 'topped up' again!!

oxo, it could have been exactly what you said, just words and rituals. It is good to seek God in everything and everywhere, but it does not always happen the way we think it will. As you are a fairly new Christian it is really important that you feel that you are moving forward wherever you attend. If you dont feel that, then keep to where you do!

Willow, I understand that it must be hard for you to "let go", so to speak. I am sure you will know when the time is right. However, when DH became a Christian, it sort of happened really weirdly and he had obviously taken that leap before he realised it, then struggled with not wanting to take the leap for a few months (when he had already done so, if you see what I mean) Looking back on it, it was a wasted struggle. at the time he was adamant that he didn't want to take that final step until he was 100% sure, but with hindsight he was just being stubborn!

Oxo, I had a similar experience once too, a very traditional Catholic service (I'm more of a modern Catholic, of the Anglican variety). I asked God to reveal himself to me, and I looked up and saw a figure of the child Jesus holding his arms out, and I felt as if I'd received a hug! It IS hard when you are in a place where the worship style is so different, but we are all different, and people find God in different ways. I appreciate some of the ritual, although not ritual for ritual's sake, and it very often helps to understand WHY something is done the way it is. There is no need to feel a fraud though, God knows you love him, and you have nothing to prove.

Willow, don't be disheartened. I know there are times when I've felt disheartened, but feel the need to keep going anyway. As Peter said "Lord, where would we go? You have the message of eternal life", when Jesus asked the disciples if they were going to leave too.

Unlurking.

Oxo, like Mary said, people find God in different ways.

I have fairly charismatic background and, when I was younger, used to find churches like the C of E and lutheran church, very "dry" and formulaic but when I had my "big crisis of faith" that changed a bit. While I found that I couldn't walk into an even moderately charismatic church (if there is such a thing) without feeling as if the walls were closing in on me, the liturgy in the catholic/CofE/lutheran traditions provided me with a freedom that I could not experience in "freer" styles of worship which I found quite "faith-demanding". In the C of E, even when I was not not sure of what or if I believed and most of the service just went over my head, I could always join in with the words "Lord, have mercy. Christ, have mercy. Lord, have mercy."

It was the same thing with the singing. I couldn't join in the worship songs. To do so would be to lie. I could however sing traditional hymns. Somehow they and the liturgy seemed to allow space for doubt and questionning that I found the more "triumphant" or charismatic style did not allow for, if that makes any sense. Please ignore it it doesn't.

BAck to lurking.

Sorry. Meant to conclude that I think how you experience different styles of worship depends to a large extent on your personality, your circumstances and where you are on your journey, IYSWIM.

Sorry again
in my first message:
"In the C of E, even when I was not not sure of what or if I believed"

was supposed to be

"In the C of E, even when I was not sure of what or if I believed "

Must proof read next time. Apologies.

I have been lurking on this thread and finding it really interesting and helpful, thanks everyone

I wanted to reply to your husband's question about the abused child, Oxo. I was that sexually and physically abused child. I was also raised in an atheist family but went to a school that was christian in ethos and also went to sunday school sometimes. I believed that God was with me as a child and I found that praying really helped. I turned away from God as a teenager and went through some very dark times, but as an adult I remembered my faith and I truly believe that it has helped me become a happy and contented person (most of the time!). I am able to forgive and feel sorry for my abuser (who now has a terrible, terrible life).

I don't blame God for what happened, because free will means that people are able to choose to do evil as well as good.

Thank you all so much yet again! Am busy now for the evening so will reply tomorrow.

TheProvincialLady, am so sorry for the abuse you went through but thank you for sharing your story on this thread. The more I speak to others and the more I read, the more I am beginning to understand.

Gingercurl, I do understand what you are saying. Perhaps because my faith is so new and so 'all consuming' at the moment, I 'need' the charismatic/evangelist style of worship. My own background as a child was Anglican High Church, Latin responses, candles and bells, which I loved at the time (it was all I knew) but it doesn't seem to work for me now.

I went to church again this morning (two weeks running now) as one of the Alpha leaders was preaching. I took DD (aged 3) with me and she had a wonderful time in the creche and was so pleased to be given a Christmas present (only the 2nd time she has been). It was a lovely little 'My Own Little Bible' book and I have to admit that it was lovely when we got home and DS (aged 6) wanted to read some of the stories to her.

This evening I went out for a Christmas lunch with the women at the church and on Friday DD is going to their Christmas party.

Oxo - ok I'll set up a 'Post Alpha' course in the New Year, especially as this thread still seems to be 'live' for the time-being.

Gingercurl - nice to see you unlurking

WillowFae - keep going to Church - you're are obviously involved with many aspects of your church's life and I'm sure that the 'final step' that you need to take will happen soon. Is there a follow-on to your Alpha course?

Could I ask you all to pray for me too? It's a couple of things:

I've had a bit of a dilemma this last week - I have been offered a job at the church where I have been attending the Alpha course (long story!) but the vicar is keen that I become a proper part of their Church family. The Church is much bigger than mine, but fairly similar in worship style. I have talked it through with my vicar, Alpha leader and other Christian friends - really feel that this is something I want to do, (and that God wants me to do) but feel bad for moving churches, especially when my church is trying so hard to recruit families. My children love their church and I know they will find it an upheaval.

I'm also worried about my DH - although ok in the beginning he has recently started to be a bit mocking of my faith - I really don't know what to do when he is like that. Just got back from a weekend away, and as I missed Church this morning, I was desperate to go to the evening service - got the kids their tea, ready for bed etc and DH could not understand why I needed to go to Church and that I should be spending the evening with him. He said I was becoming too religious. He calmed down eventually and i did end up going - I'm so glad I did, it was a lovely service and i did feel close to God tonight.

So, to summarise . . . is it right to consider moving Church in order to take up the post which has been offered to me - should I even be considering it when my DH is obviously struggling so much with my faith?

Feel as the job feels so right for me and my faith journey, but I'm not sure if it's right for my family.

I would welcome any words of advice too, especially if you have been in a similar situation.

Oxo - meant to say 'Post Alpha' thread

I'm a bit torn on the Church. I guess it is similar in a way to you newbeliever, but not as drastic. The church where I am doing the Alpha course is local to me, and are a NewFrontiers church, but it is very small which is nice in some ways but if I do start going to a church regularly I want somewhere that has a lot going on for the kids. There is another NF church near me that is bigger and the Sunday School is broken down into small age groups which would be good. But I feel guilty for wanting to go and try them as this church have been so welcoming.

Hi WillowFae - looks like we're up late again tonight Can you tell I've got things on my mind!

It's hard isn't it choosing a church which is right for the whole family - like you the church I've been attending is fairly small, but they have been so welcoming and we already feel an integral part of the church family even though we've been going for less than a year.

The church where I have been doing Alpha is so much bigger it can offer all the home groups, women's ministry and the children's ministry is extensive too. I think the bit I'm struggling with is that I attended my Church for almost 6 months and I felt my faith wasn't deepening at all - it was through attending the Alpha course at this other church that I became a true Christian and I have begun a proper relationship with God. I think that as I discovered God at this church, I do feel a yearning to continue my journey with this church - if that makes sense .

If I was you WF, I would give the other church a try (especially over Christmas when they are used to lots of new faces/visitors), it may be that the style of worship at your current church just isn't doing it for you and that by moving to a different church will help you to take that 'final step'. Also, by moving to a larger church you may find that there are more people like you who are new to their faith or finding it hard to take the final step.

Did you read Oxo's post above? - she talked about how she'd visited a different church this weekend and felt very distant from God. You have to go where you feel God's love - I guess I should take my own advice now

I'm normally up late on a Sunday finishing off my lesson planning for Monday. However I broke up for Christmas on Friday and can't quite get out of the routine of being up late - hence I'm on here :D

Does that mean you'll have a lie-in tomorrow morning then?

We're not as late as Friday night - think that's the latest I've ever posted on MN. Think I'd better get myself off to bed now otherwise I'll be a grumpy mummy in the morning - nighty night!

Unfortunately not as my kids still have another week at school so I have to get them up and off! Night!

Hello all. I feel a bit of an intruder here, as I'm not an Alpha-attender, but I wanted to post here, newbeliever, to say that I read your job thread the other night (when the UK was sleeping) and then in the morning (here) it had gone. I didn't have any good advice, but I have been thinking about you and sympathising. I have a similar (though quite different in origin) thing here, in that I have found a church I love here in the US and now am faced with going back home and trying to find one where I fit in. It does sound as if you are on your way to making the right decision, though.

I also have the dh issue. I am fairly certain that my dh will never change his views, but I really need him to allow me mine and not to be overtly mocking - especially not in front of the kids. He was here a few weeks ago and one of the first things he said was 'You're not going to keep up all this "going to church" rubbish when you get home are you?'. Err... I am going to have to sit him down and tell him how important it is to me that he allow me this bit of myself that I don't expect him ever to understand, and that he also allow our dds to explore this 'safely' (i.e. without mockery) until they can come to their own views.

Finally, oxo... I went to mass at my dds' (Catholic) school the other day, as dd1 was reading a prayer, and I also found it very unmoving... and this is from someone at the 'high' end of Anglicanism, so on one level the service wasn't very different from what I'd choose for myself. Maybe it was because it was a school service (not dumbed down, but certainly speeded up!) or because I was worried about doing the wrong thing (I always forget to stop saying the Lord's Prayer at 'deliver us from evil' and then feel that everyone is looking at me ), but I felt that it was all a bit of a 'production line'... especially the communion, but all of it really (at the Peace people sort of vaguely turned at waved at one another and looked a bit embarrassed but I didn't feel that there was any real community spirit going on). But I realise that that was just me, and that other people might have found it inspiring and just what they needed. Oh, I dunno... I guess what I am trying to say is that it's possible to believe that God is everywhere, but also to have places where you can access Him more easily than others...

OK... sorry for butting in with such verbosity!

Hello TotallyUnheardOf, and you are certainly not intruding This thread has attracted a lot of contributors!!

I've had a bit of time to consider the opinions on here and to think more about the Saturday service I went to. I used to pop into this church (the Catholic one) from time to time - only really at Christmas, Easter etc - before I stumbled on what I now consider my church. Although I never really felt the presence of God there, at the time it was the closest I got so I kind of accepted that maybe this was all there was to faith. It wasn't until I first went to the church that I attend now that I really felt God in my life. Quite a lot of people I know have had a similar experience and felt an enormous surge of love and peace even on their first visit.

Gingercurl, I found your post very moving:
"the liturgy in the catholic/CofE/lutheran traditions provided me with a freedom that I could not experience in "freer" styles of worship which I found quite "faith-demanding". In the C of E, even when I was not not sure of what or if I believed and most of the service just went over my head, I could always join in with the words "Lord, have mercy. Christ, have mercy. Lord, have mercy.""

I do see how the ritual can be of comfort and know what you mean about "faith-demanding worship". However, I am at a point in my Christian journey where this kind of worship is just what I need and desire, which is obviously why the Catholic service didn't hit the spot for me

Its so comforting to be able to chat with others about this!

NB, I wasn't ignoring you, just my last post was too long and waffly, so I thought I would reply separately

It sounds like you have already decided about your change of church!! From your last post, it seems like the larger church, where you did Alpha, can offer you more and help you in your relationship with God. What is the job they have offered? It all sounds very exciting!

I know what you mean about non-believing spouses finding it hard to accept the sudden change in us as new Christians. My DH hasn't said much TBH and doesn't mock me at all now which is a blessing. On the other hand, he has a lot to worry about himself at the moment so maybe church is the last thing on his mind

I guess the best thing is just to carry on as you are doing and not to try to openly change him but to let him see how God is working in your life. I hope that my family can see this in me and that eventually they might come to faith too.

I don't know about you but something I feel I have to be careful of is over-committing myself. I am helping on the new Alpha course which starts in January, so that's ten weeks plus the weekend and my Beta course starts in February. I have just been asked by one of the church elders to consider helping with an English course for non-native speakers - another ten weeks!!! I had to say no to the last one as I think my family might be a little if I spend more time at church than at home!!

Oxo, I am really happy that you have found a church where you experience God's love so intently. That is a great blessing . I can also understand how, before you came to know God, the mass and rituals in the Catholic church was the way that you thought that you "do church" and faith. I hadn't thought about it in that way before, but it does explain to me why some people, who don't believe but think that the church is a nice and familiar tradition, get so upset with modern church buildings, newer, non-King James translations of the Bible, worships songs, etc. I guess it goes against how they expect faith should be.

One of my best experiences was when I first moved to this country. For lack of knowing where else to go, I started attending the local C of E where the very high church vicar had been greatly influenced by his very low church former curate. The resulting melding together of the traditions of the liturgy, the Word and the Spirit was truly amazing and powerful .