Alpha - anyone starting the course this Autumn?

[newbeliever]

Hi everyone, I mentioned on another thread about starting a thread for Alpha newbies.

I have signed up to do the course this Autumn, starts Tuesday, 28th September. Was quite surprised when I rang the parish office, there are about 40 people on the course - and it's for 3 hours each week - I was thinking 2 hours max! They start the evening off with dinner and drinks before moving onto the topic for the week. How do your churches run the course?

Thought it would be nice to share our thoughts each week in a safe place - I'm worried about not knowing what to say or just not understanding the topic so would be good to have some fellow MNr's on the journey too.

Anyone else want to join me?

"I also think that I am concerned about being one of those irrational believers. You know, the sort that Dawkins ridicules and accuses of being unintelligent and naive etc."

Willow, I know exactly what you mean! I know so many people who ridicule Christians as naive or stupid. BUT I know I am an intelligent, sensible woman yet I now completely embrace Jesus as part of my life. Yes, it's hard sometimes to 'rationalise' my belief, but I know that whatever I believe, it's not because I am stupid

My honest advice would be to go with your heart. Try not to overthink it - MrsC's advice was excellent, I think, about accepting God's love, even though you may have many doubts, and kind of 'going with it' to see where it takes you

This was my facebook 'message from God' for today

Faith is exactly what it takes to get through uncertainty.

Faith is not necessary when you know how things are going to work out, - that's knowledge. It's in the time of unknowing that having faith is what sees you through to the other side. Faith is what gives you strength. Faith is that light in your heart that keeps on shining even when it's all darkness outside.

That's great Oxo

It reminds me of the passage from Hebrews which says something like 'faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen.'

I had my last Alpha meeting last night I have enjoyed it so much and have made so many friends. Last night was amazing - we all really felt God's presence amongst us. Two of the guys on the course also made up a hilarious rap song which we filmed, to encourage others to join the Alpha movement

We have a Beta course beginning in January and most of our group and a few people from the previous group will join. I am a true Alpha convert - this has been an amazing time in my life

So pleased to hear this Oxo, grin]

I have been lurking over the last week, but not feeling brilliant and not up to typing out a relpy TBH. - You also had fantastic responses on here already, so I would only have been agreeing with others.

Just wanted to say we very often use people from one alpha course to be helpers on the next one. You are in the best place to understand peoples reservations and queries without coming across as someone who knows it all and is just "Bible Bashing" you! PLUS, the people who have done this with us have always said how much they have loved doing it and have continued to learn so much more as others learn too. No 2 courses are the same, so expect different!!

So glad it's been such a positive experience for you oxo :)

It's been so lovely for us 'extras' to share the journey with you too. Would love to keep talking, it's been great. :)

PA and Madhair, thank you both so much for your input and support. PA, how are you feeling? You have been in my prayers recently. Am hoping you get good results soon.

Newbeliever, you must be finishing your Alpha course soon too. Next Tuesday? How have the last few weeks felt for you?

Thanks Oxo, I am feeling crap tbh!!! Fed up with lack of progress. Seeing the consultant on Monday for results. I was supposed to be returning to work next week, but managed an hour trip out of the house today for the first time, had to go to bed as soon as I got home due to wobbles and have been tearful ever since!! This is so not me, I don't understand it at all.

Oh PA, am so sorry you are feeling down and will pray so hard for you that the results are good. You have been through a major physical and emotional trauma and need to take time to recover.

God bless you x

PA - praying for you

Praying for you too PA. Being so weak can be incredibly frustrating, I know. Praying your strength will build up. Be gentle with yourself and take time - maybe work will have to wait, you need more recovery time. You've been through a big thing here. Praying for monday too love.

Thank you all and sorry to hijack this thread, its not what its for,!

Newbeliever, has your Alpha course finished now? What did you think of the whole experience?

How have the others got on - sorry, can't remember what week you are all on now

Hi Oxo

Wow, so many posts since I last looked in! Had a bit of a week with my DHs mum having a fall - we've been going to the hospital and generally doing lots of worrying and speaking to relatives.

My course hasn't finished yet - this week was on healing, due to the snow only a third of us made it, so the group dynamic was very different. We had a group prayer session after the main talk, where we could be prayed for or (if we felt ready) could pray for others. We then split into two groups which was very different - I felt slightly inhibited - especially as the vicar was facilitating my group - everyone seemed to be more articulate than me this week and I was a bit wrapped up in my worries at home.

We've got one week left, however, we are meeting again the week after Alpha finishes for supper/social round one of my group's homes and I have signed up for the 'Moving on' course in January.

Like you Oxo, I have found the Alpha course to be an amazing journey - my life has changed so much in a matter of weeks and I truly feel God's love now.

Well done NB. Hope your DHs mum is ok.

I am so pleased that you are going on to the next course, we have always found that a really good step to keep the momentum going and to take you further. Are most of your group going on too? Its good if there are a few going together, makes it seem less scary in a way.

Loving the fact that you have both come so far. Don't give up on your DHs. They will see how much this "GOD" has changed you and will want to know more. Keep praying for them.

Its probably not the best place to pose this question, as it is not exclusively an Alpha one ..... but maybe more experienced Christians can help me out here. I was at a party last night and one of the topics that came up was my 'born again' Faith. I have another very good friend who is at the same stage as me and we both now consider ourselves committed Christians.

My husband and a good mutual girlfriend of ours, were questioning (non-aggressively) our Christianity and asked the obvious question that came up was 'if God exists, why does He allow so much suffering?'. My friend said it was because we live in a broken world and that we are given free will so people are free to choose and sometimes that results in pain and suffering.

My husband (atheist) said that we should consider the situation of an abusive relationship - that the argument of free will works very well for the purpetrator but does not hold for the victim whose free will does not stop the abuse and the pain, even if they believe. He gave the terrible example of a child who suffers physical or sexual abuse and asked where our God was while this was happening. I didn't have an answer

Can anyone on this thread help me make sense of this? Sorry if this is going back to basics.

Please excuse the grammar in the second para - didn't check before posting but am sure you get the gist

Hi Oxo

I'll watch this with interest. It is an issue I've never really got to the bottom of and is quite topical for me - I've just started reading my way through Job. Hopefully someone with all the answers will be along soon!

oxo I think almost all Christians would struggle to answer that question - or at least struggle to articulate an answer to the question that will make sense to someone who has no faith.

Your friend is right - it does boil down to free will. What would our world look like if our God was controlling and interventionist? How can he answer all prayers equally? The answer to one persons prayer may cause suffering for others, for example.

Of course that doesn't answer the question of 'where is God?' when suffering occurs. I don't have a quick answer (there isn't one!) but there are a couple of books you might like to read. One is 'Where is God when it hurts?' by Philip Yancey (I've not read this particular one but I love his books - they are always intelligently and thoughtfully written) and a novel called 'The Shack' by William Paul Young. 'The Shack' covers exactly the issue your husband described - the terrible abuse of a child. won't win the Booker Prize but its a thought-provoking read - and the answer to the question 'God - where were you' in this book was 'I was right there. I never left her'.

To be honest, I doubt you'll find an answer that will satisfy the non-Christians in your life, but as your confidence as a Christian grows, I hope it will be enough to find an answer that satisfies you, and to let God work on convincing the others :)

Oh dear, the question that I always dread, because I never feel that I can give a good enough answer.

When asked in the past, I have said that yes, we are in a fallen world and a lot of bad things happen. God does have ultimate control, but as humans he has given us free will to do as we want, too. If God controlled everything, and there was no freewill, then we would just be robots doing as God told us to do. I am not a robot!!

As for where God is when a child is abused, I would have to say that God is there. He is holding the hand of the child, loving them and hurting far more than they are, because He is love and He cares for everyone and loves us more than we could ever love ourselves or ever imagine. He also loves the abuser, but hates what he is doing and hurts for them, too. We do not feel God a lot of the time, but it doesn't mean He is not there.

A wholly inadequate answer. Sometimes there just isn't a good enough answer for people without faith. If I was able to understand God fully, then my God would not be big enough to be the God I rely on!

i agree with Mrs Cadwallader's last paragraph!
Also, The Shack, although is a literaturely is a nightmare not particularly well written it is very thought provoking and gives lots to think about.

You are all lovely to reply so quickly! I did think of asking these questions in a separate thread in this topic but then would probably get lots on non-believers saying the reason such horror and pain occurs is because there IS no God. That wouldn't have really helped me

I also mailed one of the church Elders last night - her husband is assistant Pastor and she is really nice and approachable. She said she would like some time to think through her answers to my questions and would contact me today.

Its not so much that I expect everyone to share my beliefs (it took me long enough to really come to Faith) but I do want to have answers which are at least half-way intelligent and which do not make Christianity seem like some whacky crutch for the desperate and needy

Mrs C and PA have given brilliant thoughts on this as usual. It is such a difficult question and something we can never have 'the' answer to. It is all bound up with the fall and the broken world around us, yes, and sin and effects of sin. But that doesn't make it any easier, especially for the victim.

The Shack is a good read on this (though agree not the most literary work!), also 'The problem of pain' by CS Lewis and as MrcC said 'where is God when it hurts?' by Philip Yancey. Another good book is 'God on Mute' by Pete Grieg. I am doing quite a bit of work on this issue at the moment, from the perspective of living with chronic illness - why doesn't God intervene - why not heal everyone? I don't know.

I do know that God is in it with me, in the pain, and that yes, somehow he is in the pain with those children. Why he doesn't stop it is a mystery, and hard to grapple with. We are never going to have an answer here that satisfies non christians, I'm afraid, but we can with integrity share our beliefs about God being in it with us. I love the Message translation of John 1:1 'The word became flesh and moved into the neighbourhood'. Jesus came into this broken world and lived it with us.

Sometimes God heals. Sometimes he stops the suffering. Sometimes he intervenes in great power.

And sometimes, most of the time probably, he doesn't.

And yet I believe God is just, I believe he loves the sufferer so deeply that love goes deeper than any pain and anything the abuser can do.

I'm sorry that I don't have a more 'pat' answer to this. Then again, if it was all nice and easy, no one would have an excuse to not believe in God, and there would be no faith, and trust and belief would be worth nothing. IYSWIM.

This is a really interesting discussion about suffering and 'the fall'...I am not a Christian or an Alpha attendee, so I won't hijack your thread - but I have put a question up on the main board. Would love to hear your thoughts and understand this better.

Had my last Alpha too this week . Has been an amazing journey and my faith has grown so much during the course. Had a really interesting discussion at the end where we all talked about what we had gained from the course - the two non-believers spoke of how difficult they had found the last few weeks as the group had seemed to have moved on without them, and out of respect for us, had felt less inclined to pose really challenging questions. One of them has already said that he will be doing the course again next year, will be using the time in-between to work through the reading list.

The rest of us have signed up for the 'Moving-on' course in January.

Oxo - shall we start a new thread for 'Moving on' or stick with this one? - I'd love to continue the journey with you - as well as continuing to get the lovely support from our regulars, PA, Madhair, MrsC and JaffaCake

Oxo - totally sympathise with your experience re being quizzed on your faith and not having the right answers to hand immediately. Did you get a response from your church elder?

I'll post again next week after our Alpha get-together, same time, but our leader's house and we are all providng the food this time - I guess we will leave it till after Christmas then. When does your Beta course start Oxo?

As always, if anyone else has just finished or about to embark on Alpha do tell us about it

I have one more week left. I'm still trying to take that final step. Sometimes I don't know why I'm not doing it.

I did speak to our leader a couple of weeks ago. I had been thinking about the image of the car on the foggy bridge that I mentioned earlier in this thread and I said that I wanted to at least get into the car rather than just be stuck outside. She prayed with me about it.

But there is still that final step.