bringing a child up with a faith when you are not a believer- anyone else done this? Advice please!

[UpsyDaisyOne]

hi, just looking for some support/ ideas really. My dh is a Muslim and we have been married for many years, and have 2 dds, 3.5 years and 10 weeks. My husband has always said he wants the children to be brought up as Muslims, and I have always agreed to this. However I did not convert when we married. I was brought up to think of myself as Christian, but in fact like many English people my parents were not active believers and do not have a strong faith- in fact my dad has a leaning towards aestheticism as he is getting older. Religion was just not part of our lives in an active sense when we were growing up, although we were taught to respect other's faith.

I would very much like my children to be Muslims and my family and friends support me in this. However the problem is that dh, although a strong believer, is not so strong on the actual practical side of being a Muslim IYSWIM. He drinks, only prays rarely and doesn't fast for Ramadan! When he is in his home country he is much more observant, but in the UK he just slips into old ways as it were. I have tried hard to be supportive and encouraging for him to give our daughters a good example but so far with no result- and of course I want to be respectful to him and not suggest he is not a good Muslim....

He has taken my older dd to the mosque a few times, and we explained to her about Eid and bought her special clothes to visit relatives of my husband. She also only east halal meat, as does my husband (I only eat non halal when she is not with me). I have realised that it is going to need to be me that provides her with the religious teaching on a day-to-day basis. So far I have read her books and explained things, but I think she is at an age now where I need to be more proactive. I do have a good relationship with friends and relatives of my husband but there are none who live close enough to visit regularly.

So I was wondering, if any other mums have experience of bringing up a child in a faith they don't share (although have great respect for and a reasonable knowledge of), and if anyone has had the problem of explaining to kids why it is important say, to fast for Ramadan, when their dad does not do so...

Me.

Dp is a Catholic (we are in Italy) dd is baptised Catholic and (I think) from this year is expected (and wants) to go to Catechism classes ready for Communion and what have you.

Imade it clear from the go-get that as religion is supremely unimportant to me, but important to him, then it's his job. End of.

I am not about to take on the responsibility for taking her to mass, or these classes etc. He wants it, he does it. So, a bit different to you, in that you seem more willing than me to be more hands on about the education side of it!

I think you're going to have a hard slog though by trying to educate your child what a good Muslim does if your husband doesn't actually do it!

hmm yes I agree! I think my concern is that his family will think it is my 'job' to educate her in this, however I know they are very fair and also know him very well so I am sure they will not really think that. He does hide the drinking from them (and her) but I imagine most of them suspect, or at least would not be surprised, and they obviously know he does not usually fast Ramadan etc. Think I might need to be a bit firmer with him and say it is his job!

UpsyDaisyOne - I suspect it will be hard for your DCs to take religion seriously if you aren't Muslim and your DH isn't observant. They will follow what you do, not what you say.

You say that bringing your children up as Muslims is important. Why is that, esp given you have not converted? Is it family pressure? Or do you have a perception that they will be better behaved if religious? What are the values or behaviours that you think your DCs will get from religion (of any faith) that they would not learn from your good parenting anyway?

scroobiouspip- it is important to me because it is important to my husband. He believes in Allah and being a muslim is very important to him. I guess I understand this because I have friends who are similar in their approach to the religion. He was brought up in a country which is 90% muslim and the faith is very much part of his life. He has grown up in a place where most people are muslims, but the approach is very different- some people are very devote, but lots of people are not so much so, but they all identify themselves as muslims and see this as important. Religion is very personal there- for example women rarely wear hijab.

I think that it will need to be something led by him in the same way he is teaching her about his country.

oh to answer the question about behaviour- I definitely don't feel my children need to be religious to be better behaved! My parents didn't have a problem installing discipline and good values in us. It is only important to me as it is extremely important to him.

Me as well
DH is catholic does the music at family mass etc I'm a Richard Dawkins fan.
The agreement is DH does all the church bits, the children were baptised catholic and ds1 has done first holy communion.
However I did not want them to go to catholic schools so ds1 goes to our nearest school which just happens to be C of E.
It works for us. I go to mass sometimes for the sake of family unity but as ds2 is an ivf baby I find it quite hard to stomach sometimes.

You cant expect your kids to follow rules neither of you are prepared to. Unfair and not sure what the point would be. If it's that important to you both surely he would be leading on it and you'd have converted.

I agree that your DH needs to lead any religious education, UpsyDaisyOne. From your posts though, it doesn't sound as if your DH is particularly religious either, which is why I questioned why you feel so strongly about bringing your children up with a faith (as opposed to learning about your DH's culture and country of origin).

FWIW, my parents are muslim and christian by birth but neither were were particularly religious (like your DH, my DF has been known to drink, although would never eat non-halal, but that is more cultural than religious iyswim) and they opted to let us DCs decide for ourselves whether we wanted to be religious or not. I've no idea if it is merely a coincidence but we have coped better in life than cousins whose parents went the other way and tried to instill strict religious values in their DCs, against the surrounding grain of western culture.

thanks Scroobiouspip- yes, I guess what I really want is to let them decide for themselves but it seems very important to dh that they see themselves as muslim. Part of the problem is that being brought up in London with friends of many faiths and including those with parents of different faiths, I have a much better understanding than dh has of the issues here, brought up in a majority muslim country. I thought it would be easy enough to bring them up with an understanding of the religion and identifying with it, but not installing strong religious values, IYSWIM, but I am finding that tricky!

Think I need to have a chat with him and explain my problem. By the way, the intention from both us of was that they would decide for themselves when they were older what religion if any to follow, but we needed to make a decision while they were young about what message to give them.

"I have tried hard to be supportive and encouraging for him to give our daughters a good example but so far with no result- and of course I want to be respectful to him and not suggest he is not a good Muslim...."

Why would it not be respectful to him to point out the truth?

seeker- well I have told him he is not a good muslim in a less direct way... My comment was slightly tongue in cheek, but also a recognition that many religious believers do not follow all the rules all the time

It is difficult because he gets very defensive and that is not productive, hence trying to be more subtle and encourage him, but that has not been successful. DH is one of those men who is always going to do something soon- he will fast next Ramadan, but then he doesn't, he prays but can't keep up with doing it five times a day. Perhaps it would be easier if I were a muslim- then I would just follow the religion as I felt was right and the children would follow me...

I think I need to discuss with him and come up with a better approach. I think the main problem is he has given very little thought to the practical aspect of how we address this issue

My DH is Muslim and I, like you, upsydaisyone think of myself as Christian but was never christened and never went to church etc. Our dds are Muslim. DH is not particularly strict, he does drink occasionally. But he does pray and do Ramadan. The girls go to a C of E school which we agreed on as it is a very good school. I think it may be difficult for me when they get older as they will be learning about something that I don't really believe in.

I think it is up to your DH to educate your girls not you.

"it seems very important to dh that they see themselves as muslim"

there's a difference between you being supportive of your DH's wishes to bring them up in the muslim faith... and you being the only one actively progressing their knowledge...

It's up to your H to take the lead here. by all means support, offer to transport to classes, encourage reading, but you can't be the main one driving this. it will send a message to your kids which isn't a good one...

DH is catholic and so is DD. I am atheist, both respect my views as do I theirs. I did drive our DD to first communion lessons, but that was because DH couldn't leave work to do it. IMO, give and take is very important and, to my mind, OP you are the one doing all the giving. Is it possible that your local mosque has lessons on offer.

i am watching this thread with great interest. My DH is also Muslim and i have not converted we are expecting our first child soon and he has expressed that the child should be Muslim which I am quite happy about. MY DH is totally passionate about the religion prays everyday and we both participate in Ramadam so I have no issues there he is also very relaxed has the occasional drink etc I am interested to learn about the religion and after living in two mostly Muslim countries for a long time think I will convert but have mentioned it will only be when I feel totally comfortable - I have many questions! There are classes that you can attend for people considering to convert where you can ask the questions you want and be very open about everything. I think for me I would need to know as much as possible so that I can also participate ultimatley to start with it will be led by him though and I am sure me and DC will be learning together!

thanks for the advice everyone- I had a chat with DH and explained I was very happy to support him in teaching her about Islam and carrying out his wishes of bringing her up as a Muslim, but that I would not be able to lead it myself as that would not give her the right message. He understood what I meant and agreed with me and took on board my message that it was basically his responsibility.

I think I did not explain myself very well in the original post, and I was feeling a bit cross with him so was a bit unfair- he has prayed with her quite often (she can do a very accurate impression of him praying!) and has taken her to the mosque several times. He does not expect me to teach her at all, but he does want me to support his wishes- I was looking for advice really on exactly what role I should play and how others have handled this.

Mizu- I agree it might be difficult when they are older- but I do have friends who were brought up with parents of different religions and I think the important thing is to be honest with them.

I have told him also that he needs to fast Ramadan this year to give her a good example!

It sounds like you're going about it the right way.

I think it also might be worth pointing out to your DDs that Allah is God. This would be more important if you had a faith yourself, but it still stands here - it's sometimes proposed that because you must worship Allah, that any other god is not a god. But, if you believe in one God, then it follows that what a Muslim calls Allah is the same God that christians call God.
That way, you're building a tolerance of other religions, as well as teaching your children the best way to worship as told by their family.
Same God, just worshipped in different ways.