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Original poster

What do 'real' catholics think about gay people?

35 replies

MrsNorthman · 05/09/2010 14:53

I only ask because I am Catholic and my brother is gay. I've never asked anyone what they really think as I'd feel silly doing it face to face and people are sometimes not that honest to your face.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

OP posts:
shongololo · 05/09/2010 15:07

I think it depends on your view of the ALmighty. Is he a benevolent father, or a cruel dictator?

If you believe the former, then you have to think that any father would want you to be happy, regardless of who you fell in love with. And if He can see into your heart...

And the fact that homosexuality has continued to occur in humans throughout the ages, rather means to me that it was intended to be so...after all, God wouldnt make such a collosal mistake in our genetic blueprint and leave it running, would He? Him being omnipotent and all...

Pillars of salt notwithstanding, I dont believe God has as big a problem with it as the church does. I think He would maybe dissapprove, in the same way that we dissaprove of something our kids are doing/wearing/watching/saying. That doesnt mean we love them any less though. And a mothers capacity to love and accept and forgive is also a God given traits...are we not also built in His image? Why would he give women such a wonderful heart if he did not posess one Himself?

Prinnie · 05/09/2010 15:14

I'm Catholic and think it's fine...although I am very liberal and about to competely renounce my catholisism due to the corruption, attitudes towards homosexuality, the attitudes towards women etc. etc.

I'm pretty sure God is fine with homosexuality.

rubbersoul · 05/09/2010 15:19

Out of interest, why do catholics have a bigger issue with homosexuality than other christians?

Sorry op, I know that isn't answering your question!

acorntree · 05/09/2010 15:55

I'm a Catholic and personally I have no issue at all with homosexuality. This is true of most of those I know too. I think historically the issue has become confused with the issue of sexual promiscuity and infidelity because historically society has made it much harder for homosexual couples to live together in an acknowledged relationship. I think our church (and other churches too) have a lot of catching up to do - unfortunately our church has always moved very slowly. I live in hope that we will get there in the end!

Original poster
MrsNorthman · 05/09/2010 17:43

Thank you for your replies. Your answers were sort of what I expected due to the fact that gay people have existed forever and will continue to do so. I find it incredibly frustrating if not more insulting that the church takes the stance that it does as I expect most people in church on a Sunday including the Priest would say exactly the sort of things posted above.

It makes me feel very flat towards the faith I have because technically they wouldn't 'approve' of my brother.

The promiscuity issue you mentioned acorntree is definately correct. My brother lives with his 'civil partner' in a relationship no different to mine and my husbands (minus the children obv) in a provincial town leading a provincial life .... meanwhile Wayne Rooney is married and sleeps around behind his wife's back whilst she is pregnant with a prostitute. A bad thing to do ..... but still my brother would come out worse.

Change is needed.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsNorthman · 05/09/2010 17:47

Also to add Shongololo I do think God is a benevolent father but I see the Pope as a dictator with old fashioned and very right wing views.

OP posts:
PYT · 05/09/2010 17:50

I genuinely don't understand all the Catholic posters on MN who say 'I am a Catholic but am not against homosexuality and/or abortion and/or sex outside of marriage and/or contraception'.

Urm, you aren't a Catholic, then, are you? You might have Christian beliefs but you don't actually believe in or practise Catholicism. And if that is the case - if you don't agree with the Pope (the Head of your religion) that homosexuality is 'insidious, dangerous, unnatural' - why do you align yourself wit a religion that stands for this?

I genuinely cannot fathom it. It's like saying 'I don't believe in Sharia law, I actually really believe in live and let live, but I am a fundamentalist Muslim' or 'I don't observe Judaism that strictly, but I am an Orthodox Jew'.

WTF?

chibi · 05/09/2010 17:51

i am catholic

my brother is gay

i love him, and don't think anything is wrong with being gay, it is normal in my opinion, and i am v vocal about this when it comes up

he is getting married this year and i will be there at his side, proud and bursting with love for him

expatinscotland · 05/09/2010 17:52

In this I concur with the immortal words of Salt n Pepa: 'There's only one true judge and that's God, so chill, and let my fatha do his job.'

I have no issues with consensual sex at all, but I also believe Mary and Joseph had a normal married relationship after Jesus' birth, with other children, and that Jesus was very likely married and a father in this life.

expatinscotland · 05/09/2010 17:53

I also believe in marriage for clergy (as was the case before Whitby) and female priests.

chibi · 05/09/2010 17:54

well, a person can be a member of the labour party without being gungho about pfi

or a tory who believes that the nhs is not a bag of shite that wants its funding slashed

or a libdem who doesn't believe in anonymity for accused rapists

all of these people would be going against their party's doctrine, no one would insist they left their party or weren't 'rel' labour/tory/libdem

an opinion on homosexuality is not in the credo thus i reserve the right to insist it is not fundamental to catholicism

google the credo if you want to know what our core beliefs are

expatinscotland · 05/09/2010 17:57

'I genuinely cannot fathom it. It's like saying 'I don't believe in Sharia law, I actually really believe in live and let live, but I am a fundamentalist Muslim' or 'I don't observe Judaism that strictly, but I am an Orthodox Jew'.'

Well, that's just it, isn't it? Not all Muslims are fundamentalists and not all Jews are Orthodox.

chibi · 05/09/2010 17:59

it is funny when noncatholics try to tell me how catholic or not i am Grin

PYT · 05/09/2010 18:00

I know what your core beliefs are. My whole family is RC.

If you only take the Creeds as being the basis of 'true' Catholicism, then what makes Catholicism any different from most of the other strands of Christianity? Catholicism is far, far more than the Creeds, surely?

PYT · 05/09/2010 18:02

No, and not all Christians are Catholics.

Most liberal minded Christians aren't catholic because, urm, Catholicism isn't renowned for being a liberal religion.

ZZZenAgain · 05/09/2010 18:04

wouldn't have a problem with your brother or feel the need to treat him in a particular manner MRsN. Just another human being to me.

expatinscotland · 05/09/2010 18:06

Catholicism is about how you feel about the Trinity spiritually, IMO.

Not all Catholics share this opinion, just as all Jews are not Orthodox and not all Muslims are fundamentalists.

I don't consider Reform or Conservative Jews any less of a Jew than their Orthodox counterparts.

Non-fundamentalist Muslims are still Muslims.

I know plenty of Baptists who are non-evangelical.

chibi · 05/09/2010 18:06

a few things

all other christian churches are schismatic from catholicism - it can thus lay the most convincing claim to 'church as it was intended to be from its inception'/'most authentic version of christianity'

orthodox christians will of course disagree!

in my own opinion, i was born into this faith and don't feel that it is 'better' or 'truer' christianity in some objective sense than say anglicanism - anymore than being italian is better than being french, but growing up in that culture it is where your affinity lies

for me it is a mixture of belief and culture which i am not about to abandon because someone on the internet thinks i ought to be a homophobe in order to be a good catholic

expatinscotland · 05/09/2010 18:07

Applauds chibi.

OverThePond · 05/09/2010 18:10

My FIL is the most devout Catholic I have ever met, attended seminary to become a priest, attends mass several times a week and is active on the board of his church. That said, he sent a letter last year telling his church he would not be tithing until the Church recognized that gay men and women were also God's children. Not sure what his exact words were, but it was lovely. I think you'll find a diversity of opinions, but thought this would show that it's not just liberal folk who identify as Catholic but only show up on Christmas and Easter who have thoughtfully dissenting views--it's also devout, deeply (formally) religious folks who sometimes have the courage to speak up.

PYT · 05/09/2010 18:14

That's great for you, chilbi. I'm glad you are so very sure and certain in your faith.

I also chose to stand up for my beliefs and principles - just in a different way to you.

If more Catholics had your morals (in practice, not just inside their own heads) I might not have turned my back on the religion and hold such a very low opinion of it.

chibi · 05/09/2010 18:21

lol at being certain in my faith

that phrase has really tickled me, it sounds like i have worked it all out and now need never think about it again Smile

i don't think of my faith or belief as some sort of 'done' thing

for me it is a relationship that i am always engaging with, and struggling with and thinking about

there are even times when i feel quite far from god

i also think there are plenty of valid reasons to have a low opinion of religion(s) and would never judge anyone for thinking this

Prinnie · 05/09/2010 20:01

PYT - I think that's why I'm on the edge of not describing myself as a catholic anymore - I don't actually believe in any of the stuff that separates it from just being a Christian.

acorntree · 05/09/2010 20:39

PYT,
I would say being Catholic is primarily about the way you encounter God in the sacraments - and also about the good, compassionate, faithful and everyday people I meet at Mass ? not about the precise detail of the old fashioned views of some men from my parents or even grandparents generation. Our leaders are not, and never have been, perfect (remember the Borgias for instance). It would be unfair to expect them to be, but we are more likely to eventually achieve change from within than without.

mariagoretti · 07/09/2010 00:58

'Gay people': no overarching opinion, just as I don't have a view on 'Australians' or 'secretaries'.

'Gay feelings': well if God makes someone gay, He must be happy with how he made them

'Gay relationships': frequently put straight ones to shame. Don't count as living in a sacramental marriage, but neither do a large % of Catholic partnerships.

'Gay sex': catechism says no, in context of no genital sexual activity allowed either for the unmarried, contracepting though married, married but using rather than enjoying one another, married in registry office, remarried or invalidly married.... and serious queries over all non-penetrative or 'incomplete' sex. Cos every sexual act should reflect God's unity and creativity. So perhaps concentrate on the beam in my eye and leave others to sort out whether they have a speck in theirs.

Glad to hear your brother is happy and has the love and support of his family.
'Gay feelings': I would presume God created these along with the unique individual experiencing them