A message whilst in church?

[Cortina]

The church music thread reminded me of something. I went for my wedding banns to be read out some time ago. I felt suddenly my grandmother with me, overwhelming and powerful it caused me to break down in tears. I think during a hymn.

I never felt anything like it before or since. Hugely, overwhelmingly powerful.

I loved her very much but she died when I was too young to show myself at my best character or communicate my love and my thanks for being the amazing support and influence she was.

Anyone else felt anything like this?

When I drive my car I feel my Greatgran in the back seat. I used to take her out for drives.

In particular when there's nasty traffic up ahead, almost like a reminder to slow down and drive safely.

You are obviously thinking of these people during these events, nothing more, nothing less.

A couple of times I've felt something similar, Cortina.

One time was when I was newly pregnant with my first pregnancy. I was very nervous at the time; particularly as I was an unmarried Catholic and preparing for my Confirmation, but also because I'd been spotting and I was terrified I was going to lose the baby. I went to church because I needed something to calm me down. A song that I haven't heard since Primary school was sung with the lovely line "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you through and through, I chose you to be mine." I had an overwhelming sense that everything, all of it, was going to be OK.

Another time was after we'd moved house and I'd started at a new church. For some reason DS had decided this was a nice friendly church and he'd chosen to play up a lot so I was exhausted and emotional. I'd also just had two miscarriages and was struggling with that. Again, a song from my childhood was sung and again one I hadn't heard for a long time. The line "My own belief in you, my Lord, is only a shadow of your faith in me." and the sentiment was so beautiful I started to cry and left with DS. In the foyer, there were two women who do the children's liturgy (the children were back in the main church). They took me into a little room, sat me down, gave me a cup of tea and gave DS some toys and they let me just cry and cry.

That time it was two-fold. The first was that God knows me, and he knows for sure I can stand up again regardless of what comes to knock me down. Knowing that, it helps me to have confidence in myself. The second thing was that if I'm not looking for Him in other people, I'm not looking for Him in the right places. They were timely messages.

I think that scurryfunge is right to a certain extent; I was looking for the messages, and I'd guess that if I'd have been in a different mood I wouldn't have seen them that way. If other songs had been sung I might have found similar messages in those. I tend not to analyse them too much; they were nice moments when I felt like I was in communion with God.

I wasn't consciously thinking of her at all, she came into my head very suddenly and it all took me by surprise.

Thanks for sharing Wurzelboot and others. Wuzelboot I thought your comment about God being in others interesting, I've never thought about it like that.

I had an experience a few weeks' ago, my grandparents suddenly came close. Like you it was out of the blue but I could feel them and see them together, whole and well like in the photos I've seen of them from the 60's. I was at home sitting in the garden. I'm not psychic at all and this was the first time I'd 'felt' them, but it did make me quite weepy esp. as I was only a baby when my grandad died and I didn't really know him.

Wurzel, when I was pg with dd1 I was thrown completely and beside myself with worry, I 'saw' Jesus and my baby playing together. I also 'saw' my baby growing in my womb, getting everything they needed to grow, and then me in God's womb being sustained with everything that I needed, safe and secure.

SpiritMum how interesting.

I've had dreams, like the house one, where I am shown film footage of certain relatives etc and yes, they seem very close. I even saw a ghost (?) once of a disapproving seeming lady relative (?) in my room I screamed my head off and that is why I have cut myself off from that 'ability'. :)

I wanted to find a relative for a long time and had a dream about how to find them. In the dream I had to ring the library in a certain town and get give the very common name and lo and behold I managed to trace the relative.

I then found their number was ex directory but had more of a brainwave than a message as to how to get the number. I managed it but they didn't want to get in touch.

I mention this as it ties in somehow to the garden/house dreams. I am 'given' a message but it turns out not to be an obviously useful one? Nothing uber meaningful seems to pan out from it etc?

I used to have dreams of events that happened in the future when I was younger (these have stopped really but once were common). Without fail they were about trivial incidents, people I'd meet but not significant ones etc.

Or do I do the 'wrong thing' with the information given?

Cortina, I don't think you can do the 'wrong' thing. I think that time doesn't run in a linear fashion as it appears to and sometimes people 'see' things out of sequence. But then that doesn't explain predictive dreams completely; you must be open to 'seeing' because not everyone has them. I've only ever once had a predictive dream. I dreamed of a plane crash; the wreckage was in a snowy forest, but the men around the crash site were smiling and laughing (and wearing bobble hats!) A week or so later a plane crashed in Sweden but mercifully no-one died. The film clip on the news was just like in my dream - wreckage in a snowy forest - but the men looked serious and didn't have hats.

I'm quite relieved that my dreams are usually wrong because we now live near a big airport and I dreamed of standing in my back garden and watching a plane explode . That shook me up a bit but it was so long ago now it definitely wasn't predicitive, thank goodness.

Do you see a pattern in the information in your dreams?

Thanks, Spritmum, the exploding plane sounds alarming and I am v glad that this wasn't a premonition!

I can't really fathom the message I get from the dreams, that's the thing. Vivid pieces of 'information' yet very disjointed. The man in the graveyard with the victorian marble grave stones all around him when he said 'I have this but didn't know what to do with it in my lifetime' might relate to me but seems to connect in to all the other symbols in that whole 'saga' of dreams? A monument on a hill, villagers locally, something buried in the gardens which is connected to chilidren, an unclaimed child's prize? And something rather more sinister, another house of some importance nearby. My family at key points in their lives, hmmmn.

The 'visit' I had from 2 people was very strange. Maybe you might be able to throw some light on it given your abilities and experience? A man was there in the guise of impartial spirit guide, or so it seemed. He felt very impartial and was standing back. He was facilitating the woman being able to be there or that's how it felt. He felt holy somehow too and pure, dressed in white robes I think.

The woman had her mouth in a hard line, she wasn't happy with me at all, I could tell. I got the feeling she was connected to me and was a large lady with a stern expression and hair in a bun, she was wearing a black dress with a white apron, like a nineteenth century cook I suppose. Again she was trying to tell me something or give me a message which I sensed was of strong disapproval? The light was dim around these people, like gas light. I wish I could have been more open to them but I was so scared!!!!!! It felt like it was much more than a dream.

Last year on the sunday closest to my Dad's years mind my DS said he saw Grandad-in-heaven in church.

Just before the Eucharistic prayer he said "Mummy that's grandad." pointing to the front. I said "Which grandad?" He said "You know, the one that's in heaven." I searched and I searched but there was no one who looked remotely like my Dad in church and to complicate matters my DS was 3 at the time, is adopted and was placed at 17 months, so he only knew of Grandad for 16 months before he died and only met him twice. (We live a long distance away and my Dad was in hospital for long periods.) What made this extra significant for me is the fact that my Dad was a priest and DS was 'seeing' him during a service which was/is important for him and me.

I have always believed it is possible to feel someone with you after they have died.

Hope this all makes sense.

Hi, Cortina, my abilities and experience are very limited! If it weren't for the second presence I'd have said that you were watching a 'replay' of something that happened where you were but in the past and to someone else i.e. the lady scolding a maid. The second presence could be a guide facilitating something for the lady, but could equally be an angel there in a protective role. I can understand why it freaked you out though!

Do you know anything about the history of the grounds around the house? Was it built on the site of something older?

My offer of a reading still stands; in case you were wondering I do read professionally but this'd be on me.

Shivster, your posts about your dad are really moving.

Thank you for offer of the reading, still pondering that one as it scares me so on one level :). I do appreciate your offer though.

The dream of the lady (housekeeper type) happened in a different house just for context.

The house, I've called Pike Lodge on here for reference, has seen many buildings on the same site and one house that has been extensively altered over time.

I found today that a local history group have tried, and been refused, to get access to the grounds to explore a mound that is rumoured to have something significant buried there. Very interesting given my dreams of significant objects being buried.

I dream (see above) of a 'monument' and I find today that a significant ex owner of the house had one erected in memory of his wife nearby. It was an arch, such as I dreamt.

I also find today about about a proposed development project on the house (exactly as I have dreamt before in detail). See other thread 'This is getting silly now' for details.

Cortina, FWIW I am a big cowardy custard about contacting spirits and the like and have nowt to do with it. An angel card reading would just be for you, for guidance as to where you are and what to do to move forward. Probably wouldn't tell you too much about the house itself. Angels are all good and all protective. The only thing you might have to 'fear' would be if you were guided to leave well alone and you didn't want to.

Shame that the local history group can't get access to dig. It might have more weight if someone like the county archaeologist would have a go, or even English Heritage.

at the arch and even more at the estate that wasn't an estate - its' like the memory of these things has imprinted itself on the place and in your dreams.

Okay, this is going to sound barking but I don't care - someone who from his work I would guess would love this story is Tony Robinson, he had a series of programmes investigating things like past lives and channeling and is very open-minded, and is also obviously a history/archaeology freak. He might be able to open doors and get access to places, records and people that you can't - but it'd come at a price if he made a programme about it!

Thanks for feedback. Should I flag to English heritage or Time Team etc? I have wondered. Wouldn't want to be on TV etc though! :)

You are right re: arch etc. I can't also see why anyone would be refused entry to check things out.

It is as if I am picking up on memories or fears of the landscape/house. The question is why? Why me? I can't do anything? It almost feels as if these things have happened in different realities if that doesn't sound too bizarre. Otherwise I just can't see why I am seeing all these things that 'almost' happened to the site?

Cortina, I wouldn't be too surprised at a local history group being denied access; they can conjure up an image of well-meaning but not very good amateurs, rightly or wrongly. Also it depends on how they approached the owner; some local groups can be very pushy. (Can you tell we have a group in our village )

That said, you could try teaming up with them and approaching EH. I wouldn't go in with too much of your back story though; just say you've done some research and heard some stories from your time staying there.

Tony Robinson/TT OTOH would love your back story I woudl think; even if it is a bit off teh wall for TT I'd think TR would take it up. Don't know if you could stay anonymous though!

Why you? Probably because you love the house so much, or at least were happy there. I wonder if your happy energy around the house and your memories of it somehow matches the energy of the house and so you are picking up on that energy over time and distance?

Did any of that last sentence make sense????

Wb- haven't read the whole thread but just had to share. I have dealt with some infertility problems and had a few m/c before having DS1. I threatened m/c throughout my pregnancy with him but after a wee experience at 5 weeks I was very positive about the pg.

I had a very scary labour, ds heart stopped and I was a bit touch and go too. I was taken for a c/s. The doc told me to sing something to help me breathe steady and that was the hymn I sang.

I really felt safe. It is a special psalm

Lillybloom - so glad to read that the psalm gave you comfort.

Spritmum - really interested to hear your idea that my 'energy and memories' might match with the house? This is why I am so connected with it? A bit like a radio frequency I can tune into? My siblings could do the same thing in the grounds when we were kids. I think I do feel the house's energy. Assuming I do how would
the house know it was 'threatened' by a development plan that never became a reality?

Talking of my sister etc last night I dreamt again about the house, as I have most weeks, every night for the last 30 years or more. I dreamt about someone that was related to me somehow. I'll try to elaborate.

This dream was a bit different. I'll note it down here in case anyone could give me some feedback. There was a storm, a mad, howling, raging storm around the 'great hall' of the house. This doesn't exist and has never existed, as far as I am aware, in the form I dreamt. In the dream this great hall was annexed off from the other part of the house. Some of walls were open (windows with no glass in them)? And the storm raged around me and some men (?) sitting around the table.

(I say this has never existed but I would almost bet it has at some point in it's history - given what I know etc).

I am involved in an ongoing search (to do with some work I do) and the papers referring to a specific case were on the table and there was a feeling that the 'house' and 'gardens' were angry I was pursuing it?
Nothing should be too public was the sense I got?

Then I saw a lake outside the house, rather bigger than the rectangular pond that exists in real life but not a huge lake. Wooden boards spanned the lake and men on horseback were attempting to cross it, in the storm? Think it may have died down by then. Mostly successfully but one dark haired boy with milk white skin slipped and fell into the water, the water wasn't deep but he was in some danger in the silt at the edge of the pond/lake. We tired to help him but I wasn't sure we were successful. We held his head out of the silt.

Then I am climbing a hill very near the house/in the gardens, not one that I recognise in real life/current time, I get to the top and a boy (he's related to me, my brother? now) and he falls down into the existing rectangular pond. He has two rough hewn but small black granite tombstones, one under each arm. He picks these up from the top of the hill and then almost jumps deliberately into the pond far below. I jump after him but he's weighed down by the tombstones and becomes embedded in the silt at the bottom of the pond and
I am unsure that I can rescue him? I am not sure he survives and I wake up very disturbed.

A few themes recurring here: tombstones, black granite or black marble. Is this the man in the previous dream or his son? The house was once briefly a school and I know the pond had a wooden bridge across it at on time. I sense there was an accident there, on site at the house/grounds. Have tried to find out but found nothing so far. This was a mad, sad, bad and angry dream. They are not all happy and about positive energy :).

Lillybloom, that is a very beautiful story. I'm glad that ds got here safely.

Cortina, yes, I do mean that you are an energetic match to the energies from the house, exactly as though you are picking up radio waves or something. Some churches are a great example of where the collective energy of all the people who have gathered there to be with their God through the centuries often soaks into the very walls - many secular people go to churches when they are empty for that reason. You described yourself as happy there and the house as a magical place which is why I thought maybe that is the route of your connection; but if you are a match and there is an angry side to both the house and yourself (or a sad side) then logically that will match, too. In my mind I see this as a battle of some kind, between the good, happy side and the bad things that seem to have been imposed on the house and perhaps on you.

The men telling you to leave could be a sign for you to drop this.
Are there things that are best left buried?

The idea of an old great hall sounds authentic - ruined halls with no windows often existed at country houses where the older (usually Medieval) one was abandoned and a trendy new one built near by. Very often the old ruins would be viewed as picturesque and even added to in some way to make them more romantic! In some places you can still see this.

If you intend to carry on looking into this you should look at whether the house is built on ley lines, if you haven't already.

I also wonder if there is anything in your past that relates to feeling like you are suffocating, drowning or being buried alive that could be making itself known in your dreams.

Speaking of churches, have you looked in the local parish records for anything that might relate to an accident at the house?

read the thread now Cortina. This is so interesting certainly isn't coincidence imho. I really think buildings do hold onto memories, like feeling an atmosphere after people have had a row. I can see why you want to find out. What is your instinct telling you?

Thanks. Spiritmum, what you say about churches makes sense. Yes, this is exactly how it feels for me and a good friend and siblings about the house and grounds. I feel something tragic happened there, a boy drowned is my guess. It used to be a school at one point and the school declined overtime and seems to have had a very cruel, violent headmaster at one point.

I was unhappy as a child but happy there. Not sure if that had any significance?

A man then owned the house around 1910 who was a very successful businessman and kind and benevolent employer. All of this is news to me, just discovered in the last few weeks. He lost 2 of his children aged 5 and about 8 quite close together (just before he moved to the house).

He re-designed some of the house it seems.

It wasn't a man telling me to drop anything so much as a feeling that pursuing a certain project was a bad idea this is a long story but something unrelated to the house. There was a feeling of anger that things should be private.

I loved your ideas about the 'hall' and all make sense!

I know nothing about ley lines - will investigate.

One of my dreams was that this area/house/land etc has importance in the far future - if that makes any sense! :)

What do you think the tombstones mean? The boy with two small tombstones under his arms that then jumped?

Now I am thinking of the kind man that owned the house, he lost two children!!!!! (two tombstones) Maybe that is a clue?? Only one boy survived! He grew up alone in the house and grounds!

Church records - what could they tell me?

Hi, Cortina,

You say you were unhappy as a child yet happy at the house, yet there is a sense of tragedy about it. Why is that? There seems to be a real conflict between happiness and sorrow. Do you feel the house to be a good place but has had 'evil' (sorry, melodramatic) or tragedy imposed on it?

How old is the house, sorry, you may have said but it's slipped my mind. If there are old pictures/engravings of the house there may be one of it with the ruins still intact, if there ever were any. Possible places to look for pics woud be the local libary, county archives or -ahem- eBay, because all kinds of obscure prints, postcards and history books turn up on there. I have bought old postcards of our village via eBay that have proven significant for our village history group.

Do check out ley lines, a google or two will tell you all you need to know. You will need to find a map of the ley lines for this particular area.

Church records aka parish records will record all births (or at least baptisms), marriages and deaths in the parish of the church concerned. I don't know how thorough they are in including the addresses of the people who died but having names will be enough to go on. I don't know if a pupil from the school would be included on the parish records. If you check out a site for genealogists that should give you all the info you need on how to access the parish records and what information you will be able to get from them.

As for the boy with the tombstones, I can only guess but I remember you saying something about feeling a boy there who was lonely. Maybe this was the boy who'd lost his siblings. It's just possible that his energy was centred around wanting to be with them (hence the tombstones and jumping). However kind his fathe rwas, losing his siblings and finding himself alone must have been awful, and death (especially child death) was sometimes sentimentalised in the Victorian and Edwardian/Twenties era because it was so near. A good medium could tell you more.

AS for the idea of privacy, I think that is something I agree with. Our own family papers have turned up things that I've never wanted to read or pursue, because ther ehas been a sense of what was there being for the eyes of the writer, even though everyone involved is dead. So I guess you have to weigh up the importance of what it is that you are investigating against how much the privacy of people who may not actually be alive matters.

Hop esome of that helps! Keep us up to speed with anything you find out, won't you, we're getting hooked! Are you thinking of writing a book on this, it'd be a cracker!

Should add, the parish records will include ages as well as names of people who have died.

Hi again. To answer your questions...Firstly yes I think the house is a good place broadly speaking. I sense it has known 'unhappiness', I was very unhappy at school due to some cruel teachers early on (one of the issues) and it's curious that there seem to have been rather a glut of cruel teachers when it was a school.

I was very unhappy when I was around 7-11 and this is the same sort of age that the pupils would have been that roamed the grounds, as I did, on my own, most of the time.

There is something about that atmosphere there that transcends the good/bad, it is almost like it is enchanted. There is an air of mystery, magic, intrigue, spirituality, peace, harmony something really bewitching about it. I have known nowhere else that 'feels' as it does. Others I've taken there often feel the same.

I've hunted about for the house's history. It isn't particularly significant so it's not very well known and there is little on it. There was a monastery on the site very early on I believe and the house, such as it is know, dates from the mid 1700s in parts. There has been a house of sorts on the site for very many years.

This was interesting when I recently found this out as I have dreamt this over the years. Towers at corners of the grounds that are not there today etc.

It's interesting about the tombstones and the young boy. The older man (the boy grown up) was showing me an elaborate Victorian type graveyard, pre WW1, filled with lots of sentimentality about the dead. Lots of flourishes and polished black marble. The man wasn't sad when he did this but the boy felt desperate earlier, the one who carried the two rough hewn granite tombstones. Didn't children accept death more readily back then? Most families had a child that died.

Thanks for the info on records I will investigate.

I did find that the wealthy owner's children died before he moved with his young son to the house.

The school closed under a bit of cloud and hardly anything is available.

As for writing. Yes, I've thought about it but when I try to write about it as a short story or work of fiction it just doesn't gel for some reason and sounds overblown, melodramatic and contrived. I think it would almost work in blog form when I just noted each dream as it came? But expect that would be dull and unremarkable.