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Philosophy/religion

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What do you think would help someone in my position - Alpha?

34 replies

jumpyjan · 13/08/2010 13:37

Difficult to explain but basically I consider myself a Christian though when I really think about it I know I cannot hand on heart say that I am.

I don't think I could honestly say that I put God at the centre of my life and I sometimes go for periods without thinking about it. I pray sometimes but not regularly. I have tried my local church (small village) numerous times but I just don't feel whatever I am supposed to feel about it. Sometimes I think I should go - but don't actually want to go.

I feel I have a strong belief in God & Jesus and His existence but if thats the case why do I not give more of myself to God? Why am I not an active Christian?

Sorry to ramble - I guess I am a bit frustrated in that I don't know what I should "do". I came across Christine Caine's books which I thought looked interesting or was wondering whether I should consider an Alpha course (though fear it would be v similar to my experiences at church). I guess I am fed up with not commiting myself and not really sure why I don't.

OP posts:
madhairday · 19/08/2010 10:43

Have you really totally lost your faith spiritmum? Because in the previous sentence you say you 'may one day return to your roots...' Is it faith in God you lost, or faith in the church, which is broken and can be hurtful to so many, unfortunately. I am very interested as to how you lost your faith when you had gone down the road of becoming a priest, if you don't mind me asking. If too personal, please ignore me.

As for worshipping created things - I don't see appreciating sunsets, flowers, mountains, stars etc as worshipping them - in fact, by appreciating and loving such things it is surely only an extension of worshipping the creator?

spiritmum · 19/08/2010 21:53

Hi, madhairday, no, not too personal at all.

Right, where to begin? Well, I grew up in a family where faith was very important but church was treated as flawed. My grandmother was a Roman Catholic who had stopped practicing during the War because of the Pope's relationship to Mussolini; she coudl no longer believe in her faith but equally wasn't any other kind of Christian. My mum was very devout and we observed the festivals at home, except for when I was a Brownie and we had to go to church parade at the Baptist church.

I grew up knowing that there was 'something', a presence in my life, that guided me. Sometimes it would warn me of danger, other times it would just be a sweetness. I won't bore you with the details but by the time I was in my late twenties I knew that I was being called to something; I was going to church, and had been confirmed. After 18 months of unhappy agonising (during which time I really wanted to be a nun even though I was already married Confused) I decided to go for the priesthood. I started the process, arranged to meet the DDO and got pregnant.

Fast forward again; I had two dds, littel support from the church and I'd put my calling on 'hold'. I decided to do something for mums like me so I got a group of other mums together from both the Angliac church and the Baptist chapel and we started monthly services. They still happen now and it's the only thing the two churches do regularly together. During my pregnancies and in between I'd had some pretty full on spiritual experiences, even visions, and the presence had becoem very strong, a continual sweetness and an infallible guide that I coudl go to for reassurance. I used to get a tingling and numbness whenever 'we' made contact.

But one night I was nursing dd2 when - the presence left. It was as abrupt as a light switch being flicked. Now this might not have mattered had it not been for the fact that the nuts and bolts of my faith no longer stacked up for me. My mum has a friend who is a Jewish elder and he'd urged me to read Geza Vermes, in particular with reference to the Gospel of John on whch so much of Chrsitianity hinges. After furthe rreading I could only conclude that Jesus didn't say or write a word if it; it was written by someone whose subjective experience of Jesus was that he was the way, the truth and the life. I questioned the supression of the early Jewish 'church' and the Gnostic Gospels and concluded that everything that I believed in was unreliable. I learned about paganism, about the virgin goddess who gives bith to the sun/son god only for him to be sacrificed for there to be new life, and I saw that I couldn't in all honesty claim that Christianity had the 'real' virgin birth and all the others were pretend. Confused Then something really unpleasant happened at church and I walked, so I lost that too.

Fast forward again and I'd had ds in very traumatic circumstances during which I'd had no support from church (I'd only just left) and no solace from my faith. I'd moved from a kind of liberal Catholicism to testing out John Spong, and found his theology to be the most honest, but after a couple of years' of fighting I gave up. The turning point came when a friend asked me if we were having ds baptised and I realised that I couldn't.

But although I'd lost all connection to anything I wouldn't give up on getting a connection back to whatever it was that I'd had in my life before, so I read up on paganism, Buddhism and Taosim, I learned to meditate, visualise and dowse. And all my fears of these 'occult' and 'pagan' things fell away. I learned that I save me. I learned that I am not a miserable fallen creature, but that God is within me, and when I remember that then I shine.

I'd sort of stopped believing in 'God' in the personal way I used to. Although I never went for polytheism I did learn about the different gods and goddesses and found it fascinating. For a while it felt like a betrayal.

Then by chance I met someone who works with angels. I went on workshops with her and also was attuned to Reiki, mostly to help heal my dc. Fast forward again and I was working with energies, reading cards and then I began to channel angelic guidance.

And I began to channel messages from Jesus via the angels.

So, here I am now, running a spiritual website and course which brings together all I've learned, and channeling angelic guidance for people through cards. And somehow I can get a glimpse of the presence being back, shadowy and elusive, but there all the same.

So, have I really lost my faith? Yes, definitely, I can no longer believe in the things that are necessary to be Christian. Do I believe in Jesus? Different thing. I do read up on Gnostic Christianity but so far it's not ticking my boxes. Maybe one day. I suppose I believe in two Jesuses; the Jewish prphet put to death because he was a political threat; and the mystical Jesus we experience today.

But I can't say it will never come back. I never thought I'd lose it in the first place, so nothing would suprise me now! Smile

Aaah, nothing so good as talking about oneself, is there? Wink

How about you? What's your journey been like?

madhairday · 20/08/2010 09:44

Thanks so much for sharing all that, spiritmum. Sounds like you've been on a harrowing but interesting journey.

Me....I was brought up in a Christian home, my dad was a vicar. I almost lost my faith as a teenager when I started to question stuff. we had to move to a really rough area and I felt lonely and scared, I was shouted at and abused by local kids and wondered where God was. For about two years I felt empty, until I had a very deep encounter with God at 15 which shook me and amazed me and caused me to start reading more widely. We then started to see change on this estate we lived on - community change, broken lives healed, completely changed round. Cycles of abuse and disempowerment utterly broken. It was incredible. There had been a lot of prayer. I then decided to study theology at uni (secular course) which opened my eyes more to all the questions about my faith. I threw myself into it, exploring every angle, and found myself shaken but not broken, iyswim, by all the teaching, stuff like what you mentioned with John. I remained convinced, not because of any thing I managed to prove with logic, but because of encounter and experience, because of the Holy Spirit.

I've had a bit of a rough ride, I have a chronic degenrative disease and many people wonder how I can have faith in the face of that. But I do, and totally. I feel life makes sense in the light of Jesus, and I have a sense of fulfilment that can be overwhelming. There are also times when I feel empty, where is God, as you describe 'the presence leaving.' This is a well documented phenomena, often called dark night of the soul. It's in these times I make a decision with will to pray anyway.

I don't pretend to have all the answers. If it was all nice and easy and well packaged and everything was ok it would leave scant room for a living faith I suppose.

spiritmum · 20/08/2010 10:20

Hi, Madhair,

Thanks for getting to the end of my post - it was a bit long! Blush

Amazing to hear about what happened on your estate. I do firmly believe in the power of prayer because I see it as an energy.

I am so interested in what you say about your faith being shaken but remaining convinced because of experience. That was how I was, it didn't matter how many holes I could pick in the theory, so long as the practical worked. Once the experience of faith had gone...I do understand about the 'dark night of the soul', that happened to me in my twenties. During that time I did keep going in the knowledge that the presence was still there, just shut off from me. But what happened after my children were born - I prayed, I had people praying for me, I read the Bible, I prayed a bit more, I threw myself into church, I wrote... it was over two years and maybe closer to three before I finally gave up. Yes it was traumatic, in the midst of it was dd2 getting sick and dd1's best friend dying, but then dd1 nearly died at birth and my faith came through that stronger. Ah well, tis the mystery of faith or something. And yes, it has been very interesting.

I am very sorry to hear that you are unwell. I can't pretend to understand what that is like but I do understand how you can find life more fulfilling because of it. I hope that doesn't sound wrong because I don't know what you have gone through, but these past few years really have shown me that it's not so much what happens to us, as what we think about it that counts. And it takes someone very remarkable to see the blessing in what 'the world' tells us is undesirable or unacceptable.

I love not having the answers. I'm looking forward to still looking for them in my old age. Life would be very boring otherwise.

Thanks for the chat, you've given me lots to think about. x

madhairday · 20/08/2010 15:57

Thank you too spiritmum. If you want to chat further feel free to CAT me :) Sorry OP for hijacking!

jumpyjan · 20/08/2010 17:20

Not at all - really interesting to read about your spiritual journeys.

OP posts:
oxocube · 22/08/2010 13:34

Have just signed up for the next Alpha Course run by our church - starts next month. Am quite excited and a little nervous Smile

mumoftrio · 23/08/2010 00:12

youll love alpha its BRILLIANT

low key. I had tons of arguementative questions when I went and they coped fine ha ha!!

WillowFae · 23/08/2010 16:22

I'm considering Alpha too, but I've contacted a couple of local churches and not had any replies yet :(

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