Female role models in the bible

[vanillacinnamon]

Bit of a random one. I am not very familiar with the bible, I know the new testament better than the old testament. In my ignorance whilst thinking about things over the last few weeks I have come to the thought that there are no good female role models in the new testament (apart from mary of course, although some might argue she is a facilitator which may or may not be seen as a good role model?). However there might be some good role models in the old testament. I am too much of a new comer to the old testament to be able to illustrate this conclusion so I won't. However does anyone agree with this? Either way, who do you think is the best female role model in the bible? Not sure whether these types of questions are allowed on mumsnet forums and if not apologies

Yeah, this type of thing is what the 'philosophy, spirituality etc' section is for.

Good question! Good female role models! Depends what you are looking for really! There are women mentioned in the New Testament who had positions of leadership in the early church, like Junia who is mentioned in Romans 16 and Pheobe who was a deacon, as well as the obvious ones like Mary Magdalane and all the women who encountered Jesus in the Gospels.

In the Old Testament there are some colourful characters like Sarah (who was Abraham's wife in Genesis), Rachel also in Genesis. Also the story of Ruth is quite lovely. Esther is a great one too (both have books named after the main female character). Deborah was a Judge (in the book of Judges) who was every bit as warlike as her male counterparts - whether that's a good role model is up to you! Enjoy the stories - they are fab. If you want any more info as to where to find them, shout.

From the new testament - Dorcas / Tabitha

Clockface and acorntree thanks for your replies. I would love to find the name of a good book which summarises some of the key female characters in the bible. i have seen some just by doing a search of words on amazon but no idea whether they are good or not and whether to shell out. All I have so far is one of the life builder scripture union bible studies called "old testament women" which is quite good as an introduction. When you say depends on what you want I see your point, I guess initially I was thinking good role model as in good at being a mother rather than "career" type skills although really I am interested in both. Obviously Mary is the maternal figure although you only really see her at conception and in very early years and then at the crucifixion jesus requests that she is looked after (so far as I recall).
Any recommendations on books or texts I would be very interested to hear. Thanks also acorn will look at your link now

PS have read Motherhood and God by margaret hebblethwaite which was interesting but have never found anything similar or more closely bible based...not sure whether that is a book you might know

Hi, Vanilla,

I used to follow a Christian path and remember feeling much as you do. I tried to find books on Christian mothering but ended up with a lot of scary stuff telling me that it was 'ungodly' to wear make-up etc!

Much further down the line I now realise that I was looking outside myself when the answers already lay within.

So, what do you think would make you a good Christian role model (mum or otherwise?) You know the answers to this, you know the teachings of Jesus. In fact, what makes you think that you aren't a good role model already?

(Btw I read Margaret Hebblethwaite too - interesting book, think she copped out totally by using smacking all the time though.)

Hello! I know people who have enjoyed this book ('Bad Girls of the Bible'). I haven't read it myself though! If I think of any others I will say...

Also if you want to read something insiring about motherhood in the Bible, the book of Proverbs is full of little one liners about family and motherhood. It tends to idealise women a bit (except when it's running them down) , and at the end (ch. 31) there's a poem describing the ideal wife / mother. If you read these, don't use them as a stick to beat yourself up with ('I could never live up to that!') but as inspiration. Proverbs talks more about motherhood than most of the Old Testament.

Spiritmum thanks for your reply, I agree there were some bits in the Hebblethwaite book which I couldnt quite identify with but I did find it an interesting read and I am surprised there are not other similar books out there. Or perhaps most women are far more liberated (maybe that is the wrong word?) than me and see being a good mother as a much more holistic thing involving the whole personality and other aspects of life other than just nurturing your children. I dont know I really havent given it enough thought I suppose, I guess the bible like so many other great texts will inevitably focus on public leadership rather than domestic leadership and ideals, it is no surprise. However I am very grateful to you Clockface for your reference to proverbs and I will look at that. I am vaguely familiar with the "ideal wife" passage which unlike some people I find quite heartening because it suggests that a good wife has some entrepreneur skills which puts part of her life outside the domestic (not that i have these skills but it is good to see old testament women doing these things) Now to find a book about praying for your children; again i am resisting my own slightly simplistic and childish approach to this as my immediate thoughts are to pray for their safety and happiness before the prayer that they might come to know god etc...but i guess on some level some people would tell me it amounts to the same thing..

Vanilla, I tend to give thanks rather than pray for. So I give thanks for the children being safe, happy, healthy etc. When they are sick I give thanks for the healing that is on its way. Praying that they will come to know God? Sorry, that's their business as far as I'm concerned. Actually I'm not sure how they can not 'know God', although maybe not in a way that relates to any religious framework.

The only thing about my journey that makes me feel slightly uneasy is that I had the dds baptised. I now think that this should have been their choice to make when they are older - and I used to argue passionately for infant baptism! DS will grow up a heathen at any rate! (although unbelieving dh feels he missed out on his party! )

Elizabeth is a great woman in the New Testament. She was the cousin of Mary and mother of John.

Check out this site www.womeninthebible.net

i have just clicked briefly on the link TakeLovingChances and that looks like a really great website, I will enjoy reading that tomorrow, thanks!
spiritmum thanks for your thoughts on praying. I guess children probably make their own minds up when they are older about religion whether or not they have been baptised as infants. I am on the same page as you about giving thanks for the children although my thoughts usually go something along the lines of i can't believe how lucky i am to have two such lovely babies what a lucky mum i am etc which is mainly about me rather than about them!!

Vanilla, you're right that the dc will make up their own minds - the problem is that if they decide that they want to be baptised in the CofE then I've taken that option away from them. I thought I knew what was best for them, you see....

Yeah, know what you mean about being lucky! the whole miracle of having something grow inside you and then suddenly it's this amazing person with opinions and likes and hugs and kisses - blows me away. Mine are 8, 6 and 4 now - the 'baby' stage has gone which is a bit strange, although not in a bad way.

Vanilla, there is a book called The Power of a Praying Parent, or similar, which is full of prayers for our children and all aspects of their lives.

I don't have it, but I do have the Praying Wife one and I like it and use it when I am finding things tough in my marriage. It helps me to focus my mind and change my perspectives.

I am still in the baby stage, 21 months and 11 months. It is very intense. Sometimes it feels like watching a very very emotional film (with the whole range of emotions) very close up to the screen with no option of moving your chair back to a better distance, and occasionally the moment of wow I never imagined anything so wonderful and lovely but with lots of fatigue and other things I dare not type etc inbetween. Time moves slowly and yet very fast. It is strange. Anyway well done on your three, how on earth do you manage with 3 I am in admiration. Anyway now I am typing very strange things so better go, thanks for your thoughts which have been really helpful

thanks for your suggestions stressedHEmum, I will look for those on amazon later today when i get a spare minute

Vanilla, your children are still babies and it is very intense. I think that as you go along, you will find your feet and learn how God wants you to parent. Although, it isn't always easy to put it into practice.

From a Christian perspective, the best advice I can give is to apply the Golden Rule. Imagine how you would like to be treated if you were the child and then imagine how you would feel if you were the child on the end of your actions as a a parent. The most important thing is to try to manifest the fruits of the spirit, I think. Easier said than done, I know. My kids are MUCH older than yours and there are many things that I wish I had done differently and I still fail many, many times a day, but life is a journey and God's grace allows us keep on trying.

thanks stressed, your words really help and you are so right about imagining how you would like to be treated. I wish I could do so much more for my two they are such an undeserved gift I cannot believe I have got them. No one prepares you (how can they?) for the feeling of undeservedness and the intense loneliness and the wondering how you can have ended up with two such wonderful georgous little people.

Vanilla, the baby stage is very intense but it is also very, very wonderful. What is so amazing about it is that you really live in the moment, you have to be fully present to the little souls in your charge. Now that my three are older I'm aware that to some extent their lives pass me by - they just don't need me to be present in the same way. That's good, because they are going to learn not to need me at all, but that intensity of the baby times is a very precious gift.

I used to have a visualization that I used with my babies - maybe it will appeal to you. Close your eyes and breathe deeply. Now imagine that it is evening, around bedtime. There is a knock at the door and Jesus is standing there. Invite him into your home. Notice that he wants to talk to you about your babies. Listen to what he says. Do you feel ready to let him hold them? How does it feel to hand them over into his care?

Something else that I always remember, especially when things are tough. The Divine/God/Jesus/Source/Love has no hands in this world, so it's down to me to communicate that love through mine.

Having three was a lot easier than having one- the shock of the sleep deprivation! Looking back now I wish that I'd been gentler with myself - I used to beat myself up all the time - and also to throw out the baby books and do what worked for us. My eldest never slept and I used to spend all evening up in her room seething with indignation that I had no 'me' time. By the time I had my third, if I recognised the signs that sleep wasn't coming (like he'd had a nap too late in the car) I'd keep him up for an extra hour or two whilst I read a book or something. Might not have been 'by the book' but it kept me sane!

Vanilla, it's not about 'deserving', it's about entrustment. My personal belief (not really Christian, sorry) is that we choose our parents as we come into this life. Maybe you would frame it as God choosing you to be your babies' mum. Do you think that God would make a mistake?

I'm concerned that you feel lonely. Feel free to CAM/CAT me if you'd like (although I do have some flakey ideas! ). Do you go to toddler/baby groups?

spiritmum

spiritmum thanks for your two very kind posts. i am just having a bit of a blub whilst i breastfeed my son at least he cannot see my face he is too interested in his food thank goodness! Your posts are a bit too spot on and so i will go away and hve a think for a while and hopefully be back later. thank you - it helps me to type a bit

Oh, blubbing whilst breastfeeding goes with the territory - as does eating Chinese whilst breastfeeding, and reading Agatha Christie, I seem to recall...

Big hugs to you and your little ones and have a lovely day. xxx

Vanilla, I'm also in the 'baby stage' DS is almost 6 months. I feel a lot of the same feelings that you feel too. Good to know we aren't the only ones!

Do you attend a church? Whereabouts do you live?

Vanilla, it is very lonely when your children are very small. Your entire time is taken up with looking after their needs and fitting things in around their sleep. I know how hard it really is. I have 5 kids, eldest is 20, youngest is 7, so I have spent many years looking after babies, especially as I breastfed all of mine to term (17 years in all.)

Remember that you are never really alone, Jesus is always there waiting to talk to you. There is also a scripture in Isaiah that says that God goes more slowly for those with little ones, because He understands how difficult it is to manage everything.

Perhaps your local church has a young mothers group or a toddler thing going on during the week where you could meet other mums in similar situations? It is very important not to neglect yourself and not to look at everything you do as if it isn't good enough. God has blessed you with your children and he never tests us beyond our ability to cope, BUT we have to remember to rely on him for the strength to cope. I have several autistic children and sometimes I find it hard to deal with, but my minister once told me that God gives these children to people that he knows will be able to deal best for them (or words to that effect) I always try to remember that. God has chosen you to be your children's parent and he always knows best. It's nothing to do with whether you deserve them, of course you do. God has entrusted you with their care, he knows that you will do the best that you can.

Do you know what being a mum has taught me?

That I am stronger than I would ever have believed possible.

That I am more capable than I ever imagined.

That I have wisdom that I didn't know I possessed.

I have felt guilty and inadequate and beat myself up beyond belief (I couldn't bf two of my babies for medical reasons for starters) but I now realize that in very difficult circumstances I not only did my best, I found a solution that worked.

That doesn't mean that I don't make mistakes, of course I do, all the time. But I have a choice over whether to beat myself up about them, or learn from them and move on.

Vannilla, Stressed, we are all holy children of God. I don't know if any of you are familiar with this?

''Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.''

It's by Marrianne Williamson, who knows a bit about feeling inadequate (she's a recovering alcoholic and single mum). It comes from 'Return to Love'.

Take, stressed and spirit, just to say I have read your posts a couple of times since yesterday and I really appreciate your replies which have given me loads of food for thought, feeling more positive today (even tho I dont seem to have any more answers to things) and it is good to share thoughts with you guys, thank you for replying.
funny how you just being there, i.e. present in the moment, is really all my babies seem want and yet why does that seem so hard sometimes (but the best thing in the world at other times) it is such a simple request.
TLC I have 2 littlies 21 months and 2 months, live in oxfordshire, have found a church i like the look of on the internet with a good mums group and messy play group for my toddler but not made it yet due to disorganisation (we have only moved here about 5 months ago)
spirit the visualisation you described rings so many bells I could hardly read your post the first time i read it but now it is helping to read it and i think will be a good thing for me to try
stressed wow at your brestfeeding track record I am in awe. I breastfed my baby girl to 7 months and hope for a bit longer with my 2 month old son although a heart to heart with husband about money (or total lack of it) means my reluctant return to work and combining breastfeeding and working almost full time defeated me last time. i am going to try not returning to work for as long as possible so I can breastfeed him longer than 7 months. i miss my babies when i am at work but i guess so do many other mums. anyway too much information, just wanted to say thankyou for all you posts which i am still re reading and are very helpful. i am also going to treat myself to a book about praying for your babies if i can find a good one on amazon

Vanilla, it's a pleasure. I know the pastor of the Baptist church at Woodstock, they used to be based at the church in my village and are very family orientated - in fact his wife used to run a pre-school so their provision for under-fives was brilliant and it must be the same now.

Re the visualisation, just to share that when I started to use it I was happy for Jesus to come in but no way would I hand my baby over to him! This pretty much reflected how I was with her generally. These visualizations are amazing for understanding where we are, not to 'get right'. The more I used the visualization, the easier it became until one day I found I could hand my baby over gladly. You can always talk to Jesus and know absolutely that you aren't being judged. He will wait for as long as it takes.

I feel for you over returning to work. How about if you remember that in providing for them through your paid work you are still nurturing them?

Being in the moment is all your babies need, yes, but also you need to have some time to be in the moment by yourself. Do you get that?

spiritmum x