Who should run sunday school / junior church

[NoseyNooNoo]

I attend a C of E church. I have a 1yr old and 3yr old neither of whom go to junior church yet but are with me in the congregation. DH attends sporadically (he's Catholic). I really enjoy the Sunday Eucharistic and need this weekly 'spiritual top-up'. I am a member of the parochial council and the Mothers Union.

The vicar, a nice bloke, has been making overtures for me to participate in the running of Junior Church which is run by a small number of mums. They definitely need more adult members. I'd probably be really good at it HOWEVER, I don't want to do it. I go to church on Sunday to enjoy the Eucharist. I don't go to spend most of the time in a seperate room looking after everyone else's children.

I've noticed that the other people who it is being hinted should help out are other mothers of young children. Now, I'm not sure what the point of Junior Church (sunday school) is but I guess it is to bring the younger members into our church which over time helps all of the congregation.

Should it be up to the young mums? How about those children's dads? In a church I'd hazard a guess that most children live with their father and actually in my church there are more dads who attend than mums. Should it just be the parents anyway, how about the rest of the congregation.

Sooner or later vicar will corner me and I'll be saying 'no' but I'm not sure if this is reasonable.

I know, I've done the shifting chairs/putting up marquees stuff, and I hate all the implied sexism!

I love reading the lesson because it means I'm guaranteed to stay in the church the whole time rather than go to the creche with my two

I am on the creche rota once every six weeks which isn't too bad - I feel that as a SAHM though my preference is to be in the church and have a quiet time for reflection. People are normally good at helping me get that though and when DH can attend (he often needs to work unfortunately), he always takes the boys if they need attention.

abdnhiker, preaching usually guarantees I'm in church too , funnily enough, none of the Sunday school leaders/helpers would swap with me on that

lol - and the same goes for me being the organist

although........having said that I do now seem to be in charge of making sure SongPro/the laptop are all set to go on the services we use it for, and I seem to be increasingly roped into operates puppets and goodness knows what else during the family parade service once a month.

Plus I'm on the planning team for our monthly after school service

MaryBS - reading is a bit less involved than preaching so I think I'll stick to that!

Nosey - so understand your view, church for me is for quiet reflection and as others have said, just because I am a mum doesn't mean I am any good at running the creche/sunday school. In my previous church there were so few of us that we just HAD to do all the jobs otherwise the church would close - actually there was usually only one or two children anyway - sometimes none. I have recently moved and joined a much larger church and find it personally much more beneficial for my own spiritual needs. I actually don't encourage my child to come to sunday services with me as I find it too distracting - which I know is not really a good idea but I need my 'Sunday morning time' - he stays with DH who is not a regular church goer. We are fortunate to have different mid week church events which are very child focussed - and I have not yet been asked to help with them! I always volunteer for something before being asked so at least the church knows I am willing to help in different areas. I think your view is very fair and the vicar should really respect what you are saying as you are helping in so many other ways.

mind - I suppose I should mention my best friend who also started coming for her sunday morning time and quiet reflection. She started off helping with our monthly mid-week children's service, then toddler church (group) on a Thursday.

Then was asked to help with Sunday school once a month and initially said no.......then she was asked if she could do it on the 5th Sunday of the month (when it happens). She said yes.......

Now she does a couple of Sundays a month all the children prefer her Sunday schools to the ex-teacher's Sunda schools, and she is slowly but surely changing the face of Sunday School( for the positive - the numbers swell on the days that she's doing it!)

I've frequently been asked to help in Sunday school too, always with the little ones. I'm helping at Holiday club too and bet I'll be put with the little ones again. (I've refused Sunday school.)

This is despite the fact that I am training to be a secondary teacher, and am quite vocal that I much prefer working with older ones. I once did a reader training day, but was never asked to read either.

Some people only like to ask volunteers, others only ask the obvious ones. Maybe you could suggest a questionnaire to see what people would like to help with, and then take on the role of seeing what the responses are? (I say you take it on, cos I've also known questionnaires come round but then no follow up.)

One of the best leaders at Holiday club is a Grandad, his wife isn't involved (although she might make tea and coffee sometimes) but he is fabulous with the kids.

There is a good joke/tale about volunteering in church, which basically leads to the answer that you are the one rather than someone else. I wish I could find it, but I can't even think of one line to put into google.

Basically, a large church needs an army of volunteers to keep all the ministries running. A small clique in charge of everything can be off-putting to those in need and can lead to burn out. The sensible thing is to spread the load.

We have some older members of our church who think that relatively new members (>1 year so have been 'fed' should start out with washing up type duties, and graduate to the 'better' jobs. Not exactly 'body of Christ'...

It is easy to ask parents to help with children's work because they have a direct interest, but it is not always a good idea. When I was certain that I was about to be asked to teach young children, I quickly volunteered for older ones as I didn't want to teach young ones.

I spent many years running our group for children aged 7 - 11, catering for 40-50 children each week. I was fine when I was a SAHM, but I found it too hard when I returned to work. As a teacher, I need a rest on the weekend from planning, so ended up winging it too often. I wasn't happy with my work, and the children probably weren't either. I got out of that one by volunteering for Brownies .

If you want to stay in the service, there are several jobs you can do - sound/projection, music groups, choir/worship group, intercessor, sidesperson, prayer ministry, welcome team.

These are all valued jobs, so they can get you out of having to reluctantly turn down children's work.

we don't have a huge congregation at our church, but an effort is made to encourage as many people as possible to do "something".

We have one wonderful group of older ladies that come to many many different groups/actvities/services - and come to make/serve the tea. They love it and it's made known that their contribution is hugely appreciated.

You don't realise (how much work it actually takes (until there's no-one else to fill the urn, put it on before the service, turn it down again half way through the service, get out all the plastic cups and holders, find the tea spoons, make sure there's enough tea/coffee/milk/sugar, and biscuits to go with them, try and remember whether it was 3 black coffees, 1 white coffee, and 4 white teas, or some other combination just how much work it is!)

toccantan yes!! I volunteer by co-running a weekday playgroup associated by the church and the best thing about it is the women that come and make the tea and snack. At other playgroups I've been to there's a rota and it means that the week you're 'on' you spend almost the whole time in the kitchen, get no time to play, have to manage your kids at the same time - it's horrible. To come to a group where you don't need to do that is such a huge treat and I am not sure that the women who do our tea and coffee really understand how much of a lifesaver they are for the mums! (I tell them regularly though).

Some very good points made above. esp mme and toccata (though i know i agree with her in all things song pro/modern music ish so... of course .)

Thinking about our church... ACTUALLY, at the moment 2 of our Sunday school leaders are male (one not a dad at all), we have at least one young male about to start helping in Sept. Also 5 out of 6 of our screen/sound desk operators are male.

I am guessing we have it better than in many churches.

But in our church we have multiple services and the one to which i refer (the one me and the dc attend) is the FAMILY one and the one aimed at those under 50 (slight generalisation i know -sorry. I know some older people like modern worship (which we have mixed alongside pretty trad anglo catholic symbolism etc) and some younger folk prefer a traditional robed choir led services, but....). Maybe it is becoming more acceptable for men to take on "women's" roles as more and more men don't think twice about being on equal footing wrt parenting (as opposed the our parents'/gparents's generations).

Tbh I have never batted an eyelid at there being male sunday school leaders.

And as i sit here totting up who leads sunday school on various weeks i think are actually at the point where less than a third of the leaders/helpers have current little children!!!

very random stream of consciousness comments - sorry.

local church has a youth pastor, salaried, but they seem quite good at fund-raising so I guess it's more viable than at some places

We have an ordained youth pastor who looks after 11 - 19s, a children's & families' worker for ages 0 - 11, and student worker for 18+, all salaried. But they can't do the job alone - they need help from volunteer leaders and rota helpers.

OP: " I don't go to spend most of the time in a seperate room looking after everyone else's children. "

That's a really depressing statement. The church is a family . They are your responsibility too. If it's not your gift help to find someone who is, or be humble and help anyway (let's face it whose gift is moving chairs?).

We are a small church with a high proportion of children. I run the under-5's group. It is desperate getting people to staff it - relatively few feel it's their "gift" and being "womens work" it's pretty undervalued by the leadership IMO.

BUT - practicalities reign. You need a core of people who are gifted communicators with children and have the vision and commitment - they can do the planning and leading. PLUS an army of helpers who are simply helpful and/or used to being around children and can cope with drinks/tears/toileting. For little ones it's helpful if at least one person is an experienced parent each week.

We have 2 age groups of under 5's and 5-10, each needing a 3 week rota of 2/3 leaders (ofsted ratio) - i.e. 15 volunteers out of a congregation of about 40 adults which is pretty challenging. We are mostly mums because we are the ones with an interest in the creche continuing to exist, helped out by teenagers who get bored in church. It's crap TBH, totally the bottom of everyones priorities.

Since I also have pressure on weekends, and have to fill in gaps in the rota, I rarely get to stay in the service nowadays - I'm quite fed up with it but I do hope the other congregational members are pleased to be spared looking after "everybody else's children". GRR.

I think it's a shame that more churches don't get the children involved in the services rather than always send them out. Especially in churches where the main service is a family communion, the children are part of the church family and should be included. At our place recently we had a baptism, mum dad and three children all baptised together, during the family communion service. It was great, the vicar got different children to say bits of the service, no-one was bored or disruptive, no old ladies sighed or tittered about "seen and not heard". The children were involved and it was wonderful.

I do appreciate that it is hard work to sustain interest, but it can be done.

greenlotus it sounds like you've been backed into a corner a bit with the sundy club - if you don't do it, no one will, and I feel for you. We're lucky that more people volunteer so we've a 1 in 6 rota which isn't as bad. But I know mums of young who've stopped going to church because they don't want to sit with their kids (in this case their kids wouldn't let them leave) - sometimes it's becomes not worth a parent's while to attend if it's more work than being at home. I'm exhausted by Sunday, my DH often works on weekends too or is away and to be able to go to church and get a break is so important and helps my parenting all week.

Church needs to be a refreshing option for everyone so I think it's important that mothers of young kids don't feel they have to help out (personally I run the church playgroup every week and I don't really enjoy it, I find it stressful and exhausting compared with just attending but it's my service to the community) if it's not good for them. Similarly, I hope you can sit down with your church community and let them know that you've been left holding too much work and you need support.

Sorry I was a bit grumpy at that time of the morning! I'm not bitter, just resigned, and the OP was an insight into why things are how they are.

TBH youth and children's workers are the only church role which takes you away from the main service, teaching and worship (unlike setting up, PA or coffee rota) so people tend to get fed up of missing out all the time.

Going back to the OP. I would not be able to go to church if there was not a Sunday school. Our services are long and not child-friendly. I see it as part of the loving sharing and "bearing one anothers burdens" that if A LOT of people help out OCCASIONALLY, then MOST of the time they WILL be in the service being rested and refreshed.

I find it surprising that somebody who's a parent of 2 children and on the PCC can't see the point of Sunday School. I've often though of just not running Sunday School for 2 or 3 weeks just so people can experience the alternative!

Interestingly enough, this Sunday, I am preaching on Mary and Martha and how Mary left Martha to get on with it. Its mostly written, but thinking about this topic, in many ways its a Mary/Martha situation!

How true! Maybe they needed a rota....including Lazarus and some of the disciples, natch.

Don't suppose your preach is being recorded, Mary?

Greenlotus,

We have occasionally cancelled children's groups because we can't fulfil the child protection and safeguarding policy.

It is really much more effective to do this than to drag regular leaders out of their sick beds, or whatever. If the congregation doesn't know what is going on, they are always going to turn a blind eye.

No, its not recorded, greenlotus (thank God! )

Our services are broadcast on the internet (which means that children's workers can listen in to the earlier services if they want to). The sermons are all saved online for downloading years later! This internet ministry is yet another one that needs competent and gifted volunteers, but at least they get to stay in the service.

One of the benefits of broadcasting the whole service is that our creche workers can basically participate while crawling around with little ones, as it is picked up in the creche room. This is a new thing for us and it is proving really popular.

MRWB we can hear the service from the creche but honestly when I've got more than my own kids there, there's no way I can listen to the sermon and interact with the kids. Sermons do need my attention... I sometimes grab a hymn book and sing along though! And I like the logic behind cancelling childrens groups - it would really raise awareness.

(Actually when it's just the regulars at church and the mums are on creche sometimes the dads go out instead because they all know each other's kids. If there's other kids there though it's more difficult as many kids don't want to be with strange men (due to lack of exposure).