Who should run sunday school / junior church

[NoseyNooNoo]

I attend a C of E church. I have a 1yr old and 3yr old neither of whom go to junior church yet but are with me in the congregation. DH attends sporadically (he's Catholic). I really enjoy the Sunday Eucharistic and need this weekly 'spiritual top-up'. I am a member of the parochial council and the Mothers Union.

The vicar, a nice bloke, has been making overtures for me to participate in the running of Junior Church which is run by a small number of mums. They definitely need more adult members. I'd probably be really good at it HOWEVER, I don't want to do it. I go to church on Sunday to enjoy the Eucharist. I don't go to spend most of the time in a seperate room looking after everyone else's children.

I've noticed that the other people who it is being hinted should help out are other mothers of young children. Now, I'm not sure what the point of Junior Church (sunday school) is but I guess it is to bring the younger members into our church which over time helps all of the congregation.

Should it be up to the young mums? How about those children's dads? In a church I'd hazard a guess that most children live with their father and actually in my church there are more dads who attend than mums. Should it just be the parents anyway, how about the rest of the congregation.

Sooner or later vicar will corner me and I'll be saying 'no' but I'm not sure if this is reasonable.

It is someone's responsibility, but not necessarily someone else's. You can really only control your own behaviour.

There do have to be both male and female leaders in order to satisfy child protection rules in the Church of England.

If you are under ninety it is inevitable that you will be asked to help with things.

Presumably you would not have to help every week.

Why not surprise them, suggest you get involved but that you can't commit to it more than once a month, say? My son is 4 and has been to "Sunday Club once but is too small for it really. Once he gets more involved I would want to get involved too, you get back what you give plus lots more, with children's work, I think.

I think it's natural that it should be mothers / parents of young children that should lead Sunday School. That's certainly how it works at our church. It's cyclical - you help out with the bit that assists or is relevant to you and your family at any given time.

Speaking personally, I felt that, having been 'fed' by the church it was also my responsibility to do some of the 'feeding' - to do some giving as well as taking, which is why I volunteered as a leader when my youngest child was approaching 3. I lead about once a month and really enjoy it - it definitely makes you a part of the church community rather than just a member of the congregation IYSWIM. I rarely get to sit through a whole service but am always there for the beginning and for communion at the end. When I do feel I need to have some time for myself to attend a service and listen to the sermon, I go on my own to the 8 am service.

Of course you shouldn't feel pressured to lead if you really don't want to, but I think it's worth asking yourself why not? I am quite sure you wouldn't be expected to do it every week. Would once every few months really harm your church-going experience? Speaking personally I would think it would enhance, rather than damage it. Church is as much (more?) about community than about worship.

Sorry - I probably sound all preachy I really don't mean to!

The eucharist is really important to you - so why not offer to join the choir/ music group, become a server (usually a less regular commitment than choir), read lessons etc. Serve the church in the bit that you feel called to and chat to the Vicar about what that might mean for you.
I have never understood why church going should be considered as an opportunity to do things you actively dislike. The passage about Mary and Martha springs to mind.......
(Luke 10; 38-42)

The other thing to bear in mind is that not everyone is good at doing these sort of things. Its wrong to assume that just because you're a parent of children who use the service, it is a good idea for you to lead teaching.

So, ignoring whether you want to do it, do you honestly feel you'd be any good at it? If the answer is no, I think that is the approach to take.

Am interested in what you say MmeRedWhiteandBlueberry, about male and female leaders - can you point me to where it says this in the C of E guidelines?

It certainly is the case in my diocese - child protection and safeguarding policy. I've even been on a training course . I assumed it was a church-wide thing.

I agree that often it is the young mums (dads?) who end up helping run Sunday school. Not always though. At the moment in our church we have several people with either no children or older ones who are taking the helm (currently led by a children's worker). But it is cyclical as mentioned above - often current parents take turns, to be taken over from by the next generation!

I have never felt the call to Sunday school work. If i were to take somehting on once my youngest is (ahem) at sunday school it wil be serving.

and i speak as a Vicar's wife .

it is up to you - but to get something out of church for you and your family, it can help to put something in (( currently am on the tea rota once every 6 weeks or so - can manage that, just about, with 2 yr old ds at my ankles)

What is really common in churches is to have a regular team who plan and deliver the teaching, supplemented with parent-helpers who come once a month or so.

If the church struggles to find regular volunteers for children's work (and most do struggle), then they need to use parents too.

IMO, I think it works for a regular children's worker to do two weeks on - two weeks off. If you do less, it is hard to build relationships with the children, and that is really the whole point of children's work. The two weeks off enable you to be fed yourself.

At our church, our leaders are mostly parents, but not of the children they are with. Their children tend to be older. We don't put pressure on parents of small children to plan and lead a session, although we do appreciate prayer and occasional help. Our leaders do most weeks *we are not overflowing with volunteers), and either attend the earlier or evening service or catch up online. They are also in homegroups which meet midweek.

I think doing children's work really depends on where you are in your own Christian journey. I don't think it is a good idea to get heavily committed if you are fairly new to church, for example, as it is more important for you to be in the service. If you are a seasoned Christian, it is a lot easier. With everything, there is a season (ref Ecclesiastes).

I've never come across the male/female leaders thing either.

Just has to be at least 2 adults.....

At my church we are all periodically asked to consider if there is any way in which we might be able to serve the church. I help with creche (0 - 3's) once a month - I don't think I'd be a natural for leading Sunday School - the group dd is in is led by an older lady who I suspect is a retired primary teacher as she is great at it. Most of the sunday school groups are done on a rota basis every three months and we are asked how many Sundays we are happy to do in that period.

Although I miss the main part of the service those weeks I appreciate it all the more when I get to sit though it child free

(In our creche/sunday school only the female helpers are allowed to accompany the younger children to the toilet which may mean a requirement to have some female leaders - although there are usually men helping it isn't the case every week)

In my DC's Sunday school there is a rota, so you only have to help out once a month or so. I help out in emergencies

Also, we take the children in for last 10 mins of the service, so even if you are helping you don't miss it all.

I just checked our Diocesan child protection policy. It says that we need a minimum of two adults, and a gender balance.

This is consistent with my Diocesan training.

In our church parents of young children are almost discouraged from helping in creche/Sunday School (especially creche)

I understand that the rationale behind this is that parents of young children often have limited opportunity for spiritual input. For them to attend perhaps one service weekly and then spend the service "helping" is not particularly beneficial.

I have always appreciated this particular culture in our church (although I have helped out if the need arises) and I do help out at other services. On a Sunday 10am I am always immensely appreciative if my two are being very well looked after and I can focus on the service.

OP I understand

Our creche has older leaders, but many parents like to stay with their little ones. I think this can be the case of mums who are new to church and find it hard to get through the service (our services are 1.5 hours with a 25-30 minute sermon) and they get to chat with other adults. These mums are never on the rota as such. BTW, we have the first 20 minutes with everyone in church before the children leave, including creche babies.

Our service is transmitted to the creche, so everyone can join in with the songs and listen to the prayers and sermon (if the children are quiet).

Not sure what our toilet policy is in creche, but they move onto children's groups at 2.5, so most are in nappies. After that, it is more likely for women to take children to the toilet, but given the proximity of toilets to the children's groups, our child protection policy holds.

In my case I don't like to stay with my little one (aged 2) but she wants me to stay with her!

Similar to your MmeRWandB the dcs stay in for the first part of the service. Also on the days we have communion they rejoin us about 15 minutes before the end.

wrt to toileting; generally parents sit within sight of the door when they return to the church. It seems to be common practice (and sensible imo) if a dc needs a nappy change or assistance in the loo then a parent is called but this happens fairly rarely.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts - much food for thought.

I still don't understand fully why the dads aren't being asked - the men tend to have the 'starring' roles in church. There is an element of the feminist in me coming out. Also, truth be told, I could not work under the new leader of Junior Church. My role would be under her and she is a sour woman who won't allow my daughter aged almost 4 to join Junior Church (it's for 3yrs upwards). She won't even shake my hand for the Peace.

I am new to Christianity (4 years) and new to this church (9 months). I really don't want to miss the Sunday service. Yesterday's sermon was fantastic. I am already on the parochial council and in the Mothers Union so am 'participating'. I'd be very happy to read the lessons. This is my forté. I did this in my old church, once holding 2 children!

I shall have to have a word with the Vicar to ascertain how I can best serve. I still feel like a newbie and am not confident to take too prominent a role in case I'm seen as an upstart.

There can be a bit of an assumption that if you are the mother of youngish children then you want to be on the Sunday School rota.

This is soooo not my forte, and when I was inevitably asked I said no.

Didn't go down at all well. In fact was met with utter disbelief.

Now my children don't go to the Sunday School because I feel (wrongly, I know, I know) that I can't send them if I am not prepared to be on the rota. (They also don't like it anyway...)

just thinking about the dads thing - for one of the couples on our rota it is almost always the dad that stays in the creche so that his wife can take part in the service as she is with the children all week and appreciates the spiritual input more - I thought that was really thoughtful.

NoseyNooNoo - I'm sure if you explain to the vicar how important being in the service is for you at this point in your faith he will fully understand - I only volunteered to be on our rota once my older one was settled in Sunday School and I'm sure the way in which I serve will evolve over time.

Just checked out diocesan child protection stuff, can't find any mention of mixed gender leadership...

Mary - checked ours too - I also kind find any mention of mixed gender leadership.

Re Child protecting / safeguarding: our guidelines (C of E) are that it is good practice to have male and female leaders but that there should a;ways be a woman present. So, for example, the male vicar and male curate shouldn't do children's first communion classes without an adult woman present, but the male vicar and the female curate are OK together.

Ideally, Junior Church staff should be those who have a genuine gift for nurturing the spiritual development of children. In practice, churches are often short of volunteers and the "obvious" people to ask are those with young children who are (often wrongly!) assumed to have some natural talent.

In my experience, mums are asked much more often than dads and I am afraid to say it's pretty much sexism at work. Just as women still seem to be much more likely to be asked to do catering, flower arranging etc and men to shift chairs/count money. Churches are pretty conservative places and old habits die hard. I do like to shift a few chairs myself, just to see how confused it makes people .

If you genuinely don't feel it's your thing, say so and give the reason that you have. Although if you felt you could offer a very limited involvement (once a month), that might be a decent compromise. And ask them why they are asking you. Have they considered the "less obvious" options? They might be missing someone with a real gift.

(The best person with children in our church is an elderly lady of 86, who is barely mobile. She doesn't do action songs or lively dramas, obviously. But she's the best listener in the world and the children love to spend time with her. And she's lonely, and desperate for a role!)