Does your church do anything to help atheist dhs not to be completely alienated from the church their LOs attend?

[famousblueraincoat]

Dh is a fairly militant atheist, but me and the dc attend church and are on various rotas.

It would actually help dh if he would take part in more of the social events with us - he is shy, and most of my social circle is based on the church, which is also the centre of the local community. The church is not evangelical (C of E) and he would NEVER be evangelised! But he walks in fear of someone trying to turn him christian...

Just wondering what other people do in my situation. The church is great for my kids, but it would be even better if we took part in some of the activities as a family.

our church often has a lads night out - curry (and then some of them head off to the pub afterwards).

No talk of church at all.

We also have "social events" for the families - we had a Wii/games afternoon recently, and tonight there's a group off bowling - which looking at the list for people going has attracted quite a few of the non-church going dads.

Our church does "pint-size" church, which is a night down the pub, once a month. They also do things like run the BBQ at church events.

How militant is militant?

My husband comes to church with us but is not greatly religious, he comes to many of the social events and attends anything where he is required to build, fix or carry anything.

He does it because he understands the importance of being part of a community.

That's the kind of approach I'm looking for, Daisymiller.

Militant is giving ds "The God Delusion" to read when he said he wanted to be confirmed.

I think our church might have to say explicitly that a social event is for fellow travellers who will not be expected to sign up to the faith.

I don't think that is militant that is rude.

I suppose there is the risk that church members would find dh rude if he did attend social events. He would have to have lessons in tact first.

Honestly, is it really a good idea? Could be trouble - If your DH does attend, is there not a high risk of him making a comment that would (intentionally or not) upset someone? He might start some mischief by getting people into a debate about Christianity versus Atheism?

Your example of him giving "The God Delusion" to your son makes me feel that he might be likely to stir up a bit of trouble!

My DH is not a" militant" atheist, but he doesn't really believe in God/the church and he can be a PITA when he has to go to family christenings etc. I think he just does it to wind up his dad, but sometimes I wish he'd just shut his mouth and suck it up.

I don't see that an atheist parent giving a child an atheist book to read is any worse than a Christian parent giving them a bible and taking their child to church.

Dawkins is not exactly going to convince a believer, and it is better to know both sides of the debate and be able to have an intelligent discussion about it than to have only been exposed to one viewpoint.

There's no excuse for rudeness though. Do you think he would stir up trouble, or would he be able to take part in a non-God-related activity without spoiling for a fight?

My church is pretty bad at it, or rather the Sunday school teacher is.

She took DD up to light a candle once and DD returned to tell me that she had lit a "candle for Daddy, as he doesn't come to church". I was not impressed and have made sure that the only candle lighting DD does is with me. I will not have anyone telling my child that Daddy needs a candle lighting to save his soul and that is definitely what was being implied. The SST is very old school and a lay preacher.

TA = presumably though having an atheist father the boy will already have heard both sides of the argument? - but had come to a decision that he believes and wanted to be confirmed.

Instead of his dad supporting him in his choice he deliberately gave him jst about the most atheist book going.

We are committed Christians and have a booksheld full of Dawkins and his ilk. It is not the giving out of the book that is the issue but the timing.

If the son had gone to his Dad and discussed the existence of God, or whether he should be religious then by all means give him a Dawkin's book. I actually would hand over a Bertrand Russell but perhaps that is to do with age. Again perhaps a few months or years down the line give him the book.

But if your son comes to you and announced "Dad I would like to get confirmed" it does seem odd to give him the Beginner's Guide to Atheism.

I have to say that if I were God I would be having a lot of fun with Dawkins, but maybe that shows that I am not really qualified for the post.

I've seen Christian parents do the equivalent though tocc - to hear their children saying 'actually I am an atheist' and give them books to try to persuade them otherwise.

I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, simply that it doesn't necessarily follow that the man cannot be trusted to be polite in company of mixed faith.

yes but this kid has one of each - one Christian parent and one atheist - unless he never speaks to his dad (unlikely seen as though he told him he was going to get confirmed) I would have thought he would have been brought up with "both" told to him?

"the man cannot be trusted to be polite in company of mixed faith" [grim chortle] - no, he can't - but you see I reckon mixing with men who know how to be polite and respectful to all comers would help him. The men I have access to are via the church. Also, they all know me and would be likely to forgive him because of me (and the kids).

I am kind of hoping that just socialising more will also civilise him. I can't do it on my own - God knows I've tried.

On the question of the Dawkins book, I do think it was a bit spiteful. Obviously I was delighted ds had made that choice, as was my dad; there was a risk that ds would reverse his decision because of his father's action, which would have made me very sad.

I would actually try the other way round in your case; you initiating events with speciallychosenpatientpeople good Christian friends . Whether its inviting a few other couples round for a meal in the evening, or with kids for a BBQ or rounders in the park. It'll be less overwhelming for your DH if there aren't loads of people, and it isn't an official church thing.

Then, once he knows (and hopefully likes) a few people, then inviting him to social church events would be easier. In the meantime, you can nag your vicar to get something like that started.

Nagging my vicar (who is v open to new ideas) was what I had in mind - and some of the ideas above are what I might try. I'm aware that there are a lot of women - in particular women - who are in my position, and I thought there must be churches which address this.

Lilredwg - I think that's the kind of churchperson dh is afraid of - and ours is deffo not the kind of church which would put up with that.

Checkmate, [sigh] thanks - I will try, but it hacks me off a bit to have to do all the work when the church/community offers a ready made social calendar. He does know my friends, but they are mostly women.

Actually I'm considering the purchase of a BBQ for the purpose.

I know its a faff. My husband is a believer, but wouldn't get involved in church for years. (Was raised as church being a draaaag, and didn't get the whole community thing.) In the end we happened to move house and church, and I made DH getting friends at church my main priority in the new place. Now, he goes to more church events than I do, as has found a mid-week mens group full of blokey, fun people.

I had to do it by the way I described to you though - stealth friendships, and then those people inviting him to church things.

The other consideration is that the men of the church are very mature in their attitudes, so they wouldn't be wound up, even if dh had a go at doing so. Part of my strategic thinking is that I'm keen for ds to see more of these, and all sorts of different, men.

My church has a cricket team which plays about half a dozen evening games each summer. It mixes blokes from church and some from the fringes (e.g. dads whose other half goes to the midweek toddler group). It does help those outside the church who come along and play realise that those from the church are a good bunch.

Thanks.

He can't be all that militant if he's allowing his DC to be raised as part of a church. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving him a book to read - if the boy is going to make a big decision regarding his belief system then he deserves to have all the information, and atheists don't really have any defining texts to clarify our position, unlike Christians.

Still, being rude at functions is completely unnecessary.

Can your husband not simply socialise with people you know in a non-church capacity? He's spending his life with a Christian so surely he can be friends with some!! It might be his shyness that's the problem rather than his beliefs. Maybe you could have some sort of social, non-religious gathering at your home, like a BBQ or something, to introduce him to them? Invite some non-church friends, too.