Training a overly submissive dog.

[BobLoblaw]

I'd like to do some further training with our doggy. She is about 14/15 months old and we got her from a rescue centre last summer, there was very little info about her previous home but she is terrified of brooms/light sabres/mop etc so I wonder if she wasn't at least threatened with something like that. She is overcoming her fear of new people (which was extremely short lived anyway, she was their best friend within 2 minutes every time someone new came over) She is very sociable with smaller dogs but still very nervous of any bigger dogs.

Back to my original question she is incredibly submissive, submits to any dog we meet, if my 6 year old ds shouts about anything at all she lies on her back, if I point across the room or reach suddenly she lies on her back She seems very happy other than this, loves walking, playing fetch, now really enjoys going to the beach after a few trips when she wasn't so keen, she adores playing with other dogs, but is very submissive with them. She knows sit, lie down, paw, high five, has good recall and very good at staying when told. I'd like to do some more training but she seems to just lie on her back if she doesn't know what to do, I've been turning around and staying quiet until she sits or stands then we try again, is this the right thing to do? If I physically try to correct her when we're training she flips onto her back with here tail between her legs. I feel a bit stuck, the local obedience/agility classes have been cancelled so I'm looking for something else to do with her locally too. TIA

I'm far from an expert so should really keep my nose out but have you thought about clicker training? Once they are clicker charged ie. understand that a click means a treat they do learn pretty quickly. You can then just not click if she's not doing quite what you want and try again, rather than turning round which I think maybe she might feel more comfortable with.

There's no ambiguity with a click. If you're rewarding with just treats you have to physically get the treat there so quickly. With a clicker you just have to click at the right time (once you've done the initial charging ) then there can be a slight delay before they get the treat but they immediately know they've done what you want by the click which is quite confidence building. Apologies if I've misread your post and you are already using a clicker. I'm sure someone more experienced will come along and give you more advice but those are my initial thoughts.

at light sabre phobia. New one on me! Seriously, agree that clicker training would be ideal. The dog thinks it's training you, so it's really confidence-building, and the clear signals it gives are reassuring to nervous dogs. And it's so much fun!

I had thought about it, I've been reading the complete idiots guide and it mentions clickers, I must be proactive and order one, will do that today, thanks.

I would probably do what you're doing too, tbh and I can't see it doing any harm. Or maybe say no, 'sit' or some other command she does understand and then start again.

Our oldest loves to roll over for everything (even in the show ring!!! hence we decided to stop showing the attention seeking little madam ) In her case, she is being submissive, but she's not worried. In fact, out of all my dogs, she is actually the boss. It's great really, as it means she can get on with virtually any dog, even 'difficult' ones.

It sounds like you're doing all the right things to build your dog's confidence.

Incidentally, it does stay with them forever. (what has happened to them before). One of our girls was bred by us and homed as a puppy. We then got her back at six months old. The people who had her loved her, but were a little misguided I think. I remember them saying that in order to integrate her with their chickens they 'gave her a good hiding' when she tried to chase them. Not sure what else they did, but even now, she still lays down (not on her back though) if she thinks something has happened that might 'cause trouble', or if someone shouts. My husband shouted at something once when we first had her back and she actually wet herself. We've had her back for almost 3 years now, I don't think she'll change.

Definately get a clicker. just Click and treat click and treat to start with for several days and then you can start more training.

The more things she can do the more confident she gets.

Do always ignore any sign of nervouse behaviour and make sure you reward all positive behaviours.

So when the clikcer is up and running click and treat when she is standing up next to a dog but do not reward or acknowledge when she is on her back.

Another usefull command for some nervous dogs is "lets go see". Get a new person to approach her and say lets go see and the new person will give her a treat. The dog learns that in a new situation lets go see means it is all ok and nothing to be worried about. If you train the lets go see slowly at first so things she is slightly wary off and then treat her to make them the best thing that has happened to her.

So when she is in a difficult situation you just so lets go see and she instantly knows it is fine.

I would also teach a watch me command and a touch command.

Watch is just that get her to look at you in the eye and click and treat. Again when she is nervous asking her to watch you gives her confidence.

Same with touch put your hand out to her and she will sniff it click and treat. So hand touch when she is unsure gives her something else to do to break any fear cycle.

I would look for an ADPT trainer for a one off lesson to get you on track. It does sound like you are putting in a lot of effort and doing very well

Minimu-That's really helpful, the Let's go see command will be really useful, I will get to work once the clicker arrives.

Thank you Midori, I was worried that as she was still being submissive we were doing something wrong.

If anyone can recommend a book about clicker training I would be very grateful [egrin]

She's almost completely oblivious of other dogs behaviour, that doesn't make sense I will try to explain...she is very scared of big dogs but she behaves no differently if they are growling or baring teeth than if they are lying on their back or playing. PIL got another new dog today who took a dislike to Penny and was baring her teeth but she doesn't seem to understand they want her to back off. She barked once at another dog ( a bull dog which I think I read on here often provoke negative reactions in other dogs) but it was behaving well, both on the lead etc.

Thanks for all the help.

I have a book called FUNctional dog training by Roy Hunter. I think he is a fantastic man and provides a lot of really insightful information. I have followed some of the instructions about sniffing from one of his books, and really it was fantastic.

One of our dogs used to collapse on the floor and pee, but it was not because he is submissive. In fact, he wanted to be a master of the universe but wasn't sure what to do. I think that a lot of problems can be solved by the confidence that is increased by training and therefore trust.

Roy Hunter was my trainer at classes I went to with my first dog. Still see him around. Although he is in a wheelchair now. Used to do displays at fetes with him (and dogs of course).

My dog is horrible to submissive dogs so I hope I don't meet you out and about.

Training for Dogs is a very basic book but a good starting point.

I first met Roy Hunter about 10 years ago. He was in a wheelchair then. He was doing a talk somewhere in Hertfordshire. I'm so glad he's still around. We used to train with John Uncle when we lived in London.