Valhalla just seen something that broke my heart what can I do?

[slushy06]

I saw this puppy about 3 months ago he ran out on the busy road to greet me and the dc he was really friendly I had to grab him to stop a car hitting him which for me to grab a strange dog was hard. I put it down to being a accident and said nothing.

The other week while my dp was walking our dog he ran out and started playing with our dog again he nearly caused both dogs to be run over.

I saw him today while I was walking home he ran out greeted the dc (before I could do anything) fine but was flinching by my dp and extremely nervous and almost like a totally different dog. My dp went to stroke under his chin to check if he was okay with the dc and he flinched and whimpered as I said he was not nervous with my ds. After about a minute he let dp stroke him and the man came out and dragged him in.

When we were half way home he caught up with us and tried to come home with us dp had to take him back, the owner had not noticed he was gone. He also looked a lot thiner but the change in his personality really upset me.

Do you think he was being mistreated if so how can I help I don't want him put in the pound because he is a lovely dog who is showing fear of men and I don't want him pts . I am unsure what breed he is I think he is a cross his face was like a giant Schnauzer his coloring like a GSD, but he looked about the same frame as a greyhound, when he looked much bulkier a few months ago. Do you think I am being oversensitive if not please give me some advice on how to help him.

Doesn't sound to me like you're over-sensitive at all, but then again I must admit that I can over-react so perhaps am not the best judge. I'd appreciate others' take on it too please, to see if it's not just you and I.

Looks like a giant Schnauzer but Shep colouring? Do you think he could be an Airedale? If so he shouldn't be Greyhound thin. Thinking again, he may be a Lurcher, though the face shape doesn't sound like it. Is he rough coated, or curly coated? Is your area rural, as this might indicate Lurcher too.

What to do is a bummer. The RSPCA won't act unless there's proof of neglect/abuse, so that's them off the ideas list again.

So, you could:

1. Get to know the owner, chat and find out as much as you can about pooch and owner and take it from there. Speak to other dog walkers you know, asking if they know the lovely dog, giving nothing away bar perhaps that it escaped recently and you are a bit worried for his safety. You could add that you've heard of lots of dog-nappings recently (there are, you don't have to say they are specifically occuring in your area!).

1. Speak to the local dog warden in confidence - if you can get a photo of the dog on your mobile which indicates that he's too thin, that would help.

1. If he is found loose again and there is no-one about take him home and call the dog warden. The DW will have the obligation to contact the owner if the owner is known, and IIRC, you have an obligation to tell if you know who the owner is. Does pooch have a collar and tag by the way? The DW will either return the dog and rollock the owner, warning that next time he'll seize the dog and the owner will have to pay for his release (which is the most common, and common sense practice for a first time 'offence') or seize immediately. The latter is time-consuming and paperwork inducing for the DW, hence he may be loathe to do so first off.

Meantime I'm going to email a rescue contact of mine whom I've 'known' on the net for some while now and who I've only just this week discovered is a dog warden. He's a lovely man who won't allow a dog to be PTS but finds rescue places for them all. I'll ask his advice and also what he thinks the DW is likely and legally obligated to do. I don't know if it's possible and politically correct to do so but it MAY be possible for my contact to speak to your DW on your behalf.

WRT this last bit, it must be borne in mind that most DWs are nothing like my contact and most pounds DO PTS. That will need checking before you do anything like contacting yours. Knowing the owner's District Council's area would help. If you don't want to make anything public you can contact me in confidence at alfaalfa AT live DOT co DOT uk

Hope this helps.

I read this earlier but now its open to all....
i thought red flag. i dont work with animals as im not that lucky, but i do have a keen interest in all things animal, i also tend to feel more for an animal than a person as bad as this may seem to some. I would say there is clear indication here that the dog is being mistreated. Rightly or wrongly i would probably take things very far to prevent what i would deem to be animal cruelty.

I would phone the RSPCA and tell them i story you told here, along with an emelishment to get them to get their arses in gear and out to see the dog. something liked i saw him strike the dog, drag the dog, kick it, something. Val is right they dont act unless they have to. so for the dogs sake I would make sure they had just reason.

I knows its wrong but i dont give a shit, if i thought an animal was at risk id do it and let the owner prove they are good enough to keep the pet.

i know i will get flamed but its my opinion and what i would do, im saying you should...

i would walk past again and then when he ran out, pick him up and run home and i would keep him and love him and treat him properly.

Thanks Baby.

IME the RSPCA will do sweet FA. Lots of reason to think this, both personal experience and that of rescue in far worse cases, sadly. Even if you allege physical abuse they won't act unless there is proof - and sometimes not then.

Example here - scroll down to the pictures of the dogs the RSPCA failed to help and read of Bruno's death: German Shepherd Rescue UK

ooo actually scrap what i said id do what booyhoo said

booyhoo, if it wasn't for the risk of legal action upon the OP, I'd advise that the dog, if he is indeed being mistreated, got lost one day and landed up counties away on a sofa.

No, it's not right, but neither is ill treating a dog, imho.

If Slushy wants to email me with her area, I can see what my dog warden contact advises and also whether I know of anyone in that area who can monitor the situation and investigate.

PS SLUSHY, if you do email me, please say you have on here as I always forget to check the address given, it being a disposable one for public forum use and not my usual one.

ohh valhalla i dont know how you do your work, id be a wreck all the time, id be over run with dogs within a week. that is so sad that they allow that to happen. actually its fucking disgraceful.

ive only had positive experience with the rspca, but they didnt actally need to do anything so i know its not a good example. i ring alot about stray cats round here, (there seem to be alot) they send me contact packs out and i put collars round the necks with my phone number on. so far someone hasalways called, and faced a grilling on the cat and if they want them and why they look so bedraggled etc. neighbours must love me.

Trouble is the rspca is a default position as i, like many others wouldnt know what else to do. Id badger and badger to get something done. but honestly wouldnt know what else to do.

Actually DH reading over my shoulder said i wouldnt ring, id take him, like the rabbits, (thats a whole other thread) i prefer the term rescue it sounds less illegal.

He looked similar to a Airedale terrior the head shape was similar he had a funny beard. But the coat was flat as long as a Labradors but silkier. He was not quite as thin as a greyhound but as thin and with the exact same coat as my friends greyhound X German shepherd (who is very thin compared to my Labrador) A few months ago he had a build similar to my field Labrador.

I almost did take him home I would have if he had not have caught up just as I was talking to another dog walker . I felt so horrible taking him back but I had too because I was worried about him running on the road. I don't think he had a collar on I was thinking that I could take him home and just say he followed me then I could put up a few signs and hope he didn't answer(I felt really bad for thinking this). I could not take him in myself though because as I said he was nervous of being touched and he bounded up to my ds and my ds 4 gave him a gentle hug straight away as he would do his own dog. I pulled him up after about doing that to a strange dog but no one saw it coming and my ds just reacted instinctively. I think my dc may be a bit too boisterous for him.

We live in a town that has a lot of rural area around. I tried to speak to the owner, you know said there is a lovely dog the usual stuff that get dog owners chatting but he grunted and dragged him back in. I am glad others felt the same way he was such a happy dog with everyone 3months ago jumping up tail wagging wanting to be petted and now you only saw the same dog when my ds went near him. But he was afraid of both me and dp. I will email valhalla now and see what we can sort out. I may also walk my dc and my dog past there tonight see if they have left the door open again which they do when it is hot that will bring him out and I can try to get a picture then I doubt the owners would notice they only noticed when I or dp called them.

Have emailed you, thanks.

Many pups go through a phase of development whereby they start to exhibit fear towards things they were previously quite OK with. It can be normal for a dog to become fearful of strangers during adolescence.

I am not saying that there isn't more to this, but I think there's a lot of judgement and extrapolation going on here.

I think you would do well to inform the local community police or dog warden that the dog is at risk of causing a road accident (which is true) and is not under control in a public place (which is true) - both of these things are likely to receive more attention than yet another welfare enquiry (the police do receive an awful lot of complaints that are unfounded). It may be that if there is anything sinister going on it becomes apparent if the police visit the owner.

The Police are unlikely to get involved unless the dog's behaviour falls under the Dangerous Dogs Act (or of course if he causes a RTA).

They will generally refer the enquirer to the Dog Warden. It's here that the situation can become uncertain for the dog.

Got a reply from my lovely dog warden contact. Have edited out a few bits which are general chit-chat, but hope this makes sense:

"I would say that your advice is spot on to be honest. It is true that the pound may not be non destruct but the finder can always enquire on the dogs progress and if needed pull the dog and we can place [into a rescue].

If the dog is in danger she should def inform the DW.

Best thing is for her to have a chat with the DW, its pot luck weather you get an animal welfare minded one or not.

If I can be of further help or the dog needs placing please get in touch."

So, looks like a chat with your dog warden is the way forward. And, as N says, if the dog does get seized into a pound and is at risk, if you keep in touch with the pound and DW and feel he isn't likely to be rehomed, N and I will help pull him out and get him into rescue.

Thanks how do I call the dog warden? the council?. Then check his progress through the dw or the pound?

Unsure how he is with cats but he seemed friendly with dogs and children. I don't know how you care for so many dogs, I really don't you're a marvel.

I'm not a marvel, I'm just daft!

The DW is within Environmental Health dept of your local (ie district) council, There's a bit about your particular area's oone online, just Google "Dog Warden" and your town (I'm not including the link to protect your anonymity).

Check his progress through both pound and DW - remember that a lot of pound owners lie and many more aren't too concerned about the dogs in their charge, so if you can strike up a good rapport with the DW from the start it may help.

If you talk to the DW to start with, and ask him to speak to the owner AND take a look at the dog, explaining that the dog runs loose with no collar or tag and appears mistreated, see what he says and does and take it from there.

Update DW has been round the dog was unfortunately in the house, he is unsure of abuse yet he said it may be that passers by have kicked him or he may be being abused. He has given me a mobile number and if I see him out he will go and collect him and take him to the pound. Where he assured me if he stayed he would get him transferred to rescue.

He has warned the owners about letting him out and is going to keep a eye on things, unfortunately the dog is now showing fear aggression and growls,snaps and barks if you walk past. I have not seen him out since I was given the number as it has been raining and they only opened the door when it was sunny

Poor dog. Honestly, some people...

Thank goodness you have a decent DW in your area.

I'd be concerned about the fear aggression. If he acts like that in the pound there's a good chance that he'll be in trouble and at risk of PTS.

Please, if the DW does take him to the pound, can you ask the DW to let you know if there is a risk of PTS or if he can't find a rescue place, and explain that you know a rescuer who will try her damndest to help.

If I break yet another laptop and can't be contacted on here, you can search me out via Poplar Farm Rescue Kennels web forum and someone there will get in touch with me.

Last but not least, you're a star for caring.

Steal him!

Then take him to RSPCA for rehoming.

I will keep update's when I get them it took ages to get it going I harassed the poor man he only got back of paternity leave today, he has promised to keep me updated. It was my partner who saw the fear aggression but I will see how the events go and if things are going bad I will let you know and we can try to get him out.

Thanks for the advice i don't think I would have known what to do otherwise .

Christ, no, not the RSPCA, Orm. If the dog suffers from fear aggression he wouldn't stand a chance and would be PTS without a second thought.

Slushy, thank you.

I must be mad doing what I do!

Oh OK....A N other animal rescue charity then.

I thought about it orm but as he is nervous of being touched I have very young children and they would touch him eventually, I would have to keep him here while I find somewhere suitable and my dc would probably make him worse no matter how hard I tried to keep them separate.

Vallhala's experience of the RSPCA is not the same as mine (and I have plenty).

I think it would be fine to contact them in a case like this.

Sorry to be argumentative LadyCad (who, me? As if!), but I really must disagree strongly.

In general matters of a dog straying they will refer you to the Dog Warden and take no action. WRT cruelty, they will require proof before acting.

In cases of neglect, responses are ime varied and not always satisfactory. I reported some Border Collies, including a pup, left tied up in a garden in a NE England minus christ knows what winter with just open-fronted wooden kennels with (often wet due to snow) straw bedding for shelter. I had to pull some strings even to get the RSPCA inspector out. She concluded that as there was water and there was evidence that they had recently been fed (empty but apparently recently used food bowls) the owner had no case to answer.

Far worse was the case of 2 GSDs, one quite old, left out with NO shelter. Despite the requests of GSD Rescue UK, those dogs were left to suffer by the RSPCA. The case is appalling - details HERE scroll down for pictures and more info.

In the case Slushy speaks of, "the dog is now showing fear aggression and growls,snaps and barks if you walk past".

The RSPCA would almost undoubtedly kill a dog like that. They would seem him unrehomeable - PLEASE believe me, I work with independent rescue and both know this to have happened many, many times and get involved in rescuing dogs like this one which the RSPCA have openly told owners/concerned individuals that they will take him in, but they will PTS.

I also know rescuers who, with the help of more caring RSPCA workers get dogs "out the back door" of RSPCA rescue and clinics because they are condemned to death. I've even been contacted by an RSPCA inspector and got a dog to the safety of independent rescue because he was about to be PTS for being, in their opinion, "too ugly to rehome".

Those who know me on here are aware that the RSPCA is my bete noire but they know too, I hope, that this is not only with good reason but that I speak from bitter experience and that my reputation as a rescuer is genuine and trustworthy.

Sorry... the RSPCA would deem the dog unrehomeable, not seem him so!

May I add that one of the GSDs left in all weathers was also ill, suffering from lymphoma and liver failure. He was finally, after a great deal of struggle and being turned down, bought off the owner by GSD Rescue, 18 months after they first contacted the RSPCA, where he lived just a couple of weeks in a loving, warm, dry foster home before his health declined further and they broke their hearts having to have him PTS.