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How do you know your potential puppy is healthy?

18 replies

kid · 06/06/2010 20:44

I am still undecided whether to get a young rescue dog, a puppy or no dog at all!
But, I want to know if I did choose a puppy, how can I be sure it's healthy?

Does it make a difference to buy a KC registered pup? Should I avoid buying from the first litter? Should the parents have been DNA tested for common illnesses for their breed?

In all honesty, I am scared of getting another dog incase that dies. I guess it's to be expected considering my circumstances and perhaps the way I am feeling is normal. But, I just don't want to take any chances. TBH, I'd prefer no dog at all if there is any chance it would die. Of course all dogs die, but puppies shouldn't die.

So scared yet so desperate to have a dog. My children are equally as scared of another dog dying, but I could be making them feel that way without realising.

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booyhoo · 06/06/2010 20:47

if it is a rescue dog you will most likely not have the parents health details but if from a breeder then yes they definitely should be able to provide the latest vet checks/hip scores/vaccines etc. also, i am not 100% on this but i think most breeders register their pups with KC and usually give them their first set of injections. someone alot more knowledgeable than me will be along soon. midori? valhalla?

kid · 06/06/2010 21:02

Valhalla is kindly helping me look for a rescue dog but knows I am also considering a puppy. I would never buy from a puppy farm though, I don't care how cute a puppy is (they all are as far as I am concerned), I need to know the dog is healthy and well cared for.

I need to do what is best for my family and that involves being able to get a dog that is not likely to have any underlying heart problems, or any other life threatening problems.

When I got my previous pup, I spoke to the breeder, asked about history of parent dogs, any health issues, about the family the dog lived with etc.
We then met the puppy and fell in love with him. He was the first litter with that particular dad, but mums 2nd litter. There were 10 in the litter, 1 had died when mum squashed it at a few days old. My puppy was the runt of the litter but grew pretty big by 7 months old.

I have since sent a letter to the breeder to let her know what happened to my pup as there is a risk it was hereditary. But, she has failed to respond to my letter so I am guessing she isn't that interested in the welfare of the pups after all which is really sad. I don't know what I expected her to do, but perhaps an acknowledgement would have been nice.

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midori1999 · 06/06/2010 21:10

You can't guarantee a puppy will be healthy unfortunately, but you can do your best to ensure you have the best chance possible of getting a healthy puppy.

Some people feel crossbreeds are more healthy in general, but sadly the people who deliberately breed them rarely give a thought to temprement or health and as has been said, if you go for a rescue crossbreed pup, you will probably not have any idea of the parent's health.

Personally, I feel getting a purebreed pup of a breed with few health problems, from a very good breeder gives you the best chance, but like I said, there is no guarantee.

For pedigree dogs, KC registration should be the minimum requirement. However, puppy farmers and irresponsible breeders still KC register, so you do need to be careful. Find a breed you like the sound of and then contact the breed club in your area to get details of breeders who have a litter planned. The best and most consciencious breeders will have a waiting list, so be prepared to wait for a pup, but they will be happy to meet you when you are ready, and in fact will probably insist on it before they agree to put you on their waiting list anyway. Going via the breed club means you are more likely to find a good breeder, but also mak esure they have done all the necessary health tests for their breed, things like hip and elbow scoring, any DNA or blood testing or eye tests required for that breed. Some things can be guarantee'd. L2-HGA in Staffs, for example, is a recessive condition which can be tested for and if both parents are clear, or one parent is clear, the puppy cannot have the condition. Other things like hip scoring do not guarantee the pup will not get hip displaycia, but as long as the parents have good results can mean it is far less likely, especially if grandparents also have low scores. A good breeder will probably have generations of parents, grandparents and grandparents of a puppy you are likely to get and can show you these and give you an idea of longevity of their lines. They should welcome any questions you may have and answer honestly and openly. They should also ask you quite a few questions.

Make sure that breeding dogs and bitches (parents of pups) are vaccinated and that both Mum and pups will be wormed, and ask what with. Find out what food puppy will be weaned on, it should be a quality brand, a good start is better than a bad one. Pups may also be frontlined, but not all breeders do this and tbh, there is no dogs the breeder has have fleas. The breeder may have had the first vaccination done, or may insist on keeping the pup until both vaccinations have been done. They also may not have had any vaccinations done. I do not have any pups vaccinated before they leave me as I (with advice from my previous and current vet) do not believe puppies should have their first vaccination before 9 weeks old and for socialisation reasons I believe they should leave me before that age if possible. Also, some vets use different brands of vaccine, and will insist on starting the course again if the breeder's vet uses a different vaccine. Plus, the puppy should still have some immunity from Mum at the age it leaves the breeder, and should not have been put at risk of any diseases which can be vaccinated against, and can be protected from the same diseases once with the new owner until they can be vaccinated.

Also, make sure the puppy has been properly checked over by the breeder's vet before you take it. Not all breeders do this, even otherwise very good ones, but I think if health is something you are especially worried about, it would be wise. Good breeders would take back, swap or refund a pup foun d ot be sick once it had left them, but that's obviously not the point.

Finally, do remember that things like cancer, epilepsy/siezures etc can occur even if the breeder has done everything they could to breed healthy puppies, but you can go a long way to prevent or help prevent a lot of potential problems.

booyhoo · 06/06/2010 21:15

oh, kid i remember your post about your little puppy dying, i am sorry i disn't realise i was talking to the same poster.

you are right about puppy farms,dont touch with a bargepole. i guess the only thing you can do if you are thinking of buying from a breeder is to write yourself a huge list of questions and ask them. there are a lot of websites that will give you a list of questions to ask.

with a rescue dog, the rescue place will have done all the health checks necessary and will inform you of any helath problems that you will need to treat or look out for.

again, you cant be sure that a puppy wont die but if you find out as much as you can beforehand then i guess it makes it less likely that you will chose one that will.

i am sorry for your loss.

kid · 06/06/2010 22:02

Thank you midori1999 and booyhoo
I am extremely concerned about a new puppy having a life threatening condition such as congenital heart disease like poor Moby was suspected of having. I don't think he was checked by a vet before we got him, but he was seen by a vet on 3 separate occassions when I had him (2 vaccinations and the morning of the neutering op). Nothing was detected on any of these occassions.

The breed we are interested in is a Springer Spaniel. Moby was a Springer X Cocker, so providing that particular cross breed is a safe one, I'm happy to get another. But, I just don't know for sure.

I have been looking at litters that are due, but there don't seem to be many. I am willing to travel if need be, but there seems to be nothing for miles and miles!
It makes me feel that perhaps we shouldn't even get another dog, despite me and DC wanting one. DH just wants Moby back, but he knows that can't happen.

I have just been looking on a Springer rescue site and there are some lovely dogs on there. We feel we were cheated out of enjoying Moby's puppyhood. He was such an adorable dog. We have so many photos of him and some video footage too. We really want to experience a puppy through to adulthood. We don't want to miss out on any part of its life which is why I think we are swaying towards getting a puppy. But its just so hard knowing what to do for the best. There is no way I would have the dog neutered though, I just couldn't put myself through it. I wouldn't breed the dog either, there are enough dogs out there already. We just want a dog for us to love and for him to love us back.

One good thing about Moby is, I have no regrets at all. He was loved so much and we were never once mean to him. He got so much love, attention and had so much fun. I am thankful that his life was wonderful even if it was cut short.

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midori1999 · 06/06/2010 23:08

I wouldn't go for a springer x cocker personally, nor any crossbreed, purely because most people breeding these types of dogs will not be ethical and will not have been breeding them long enough to have a true picture of health in the lines, a lot will be first generation crosses.

There is some info here on health tesing in Springers:

www.englishspringerwelfare.co.uk/#/ess-health/4531663082

As far as I know a lot of Springer breeders haven't 'caught up' with all the tests yet, so do check and double check they are done and ask to see the documents to prove it. You can also check on the KC website, although sometimes tests are done but it takes a while for results to appear on there.

I am so sorry about what happened with your pup. I can completely understand why you feel the way you do. If you do get anothe rpuppy, you may eventually find that neutering is better for the dog in the long run, and complications really are rare. If you do decide against neutering, then 'chemical castration' is available for dogs, but I am not sure how suitable that is for long term use. It would be an option to try if you felt neutering might help a problem with the dog and wanted to see if it would though before risking surgery. Obviously only physical neutering removes the risk of testicular cancer though. Maybe Jooly or one of the other vet son here can advise you better re: this?

Do not be afraid to visit lots of breeders to compare their way sand standards and get a feel for one you are happy with. For people who want a family pet it can be quite hard to find a balance between the out and out show breeder who kennels their dogs and the someone breeding their family pet. Ideally, you need to find a breeder who shows and treats their dogs like pets and rears puppies indoors.

(FWIW, relating to your above post, suffocating puppies should just not happen. All breeders I know, myself included sleep with litters and Mum for the first few weeks to keep an eye on them, and people with inexperienced bitches or giant breeds ensure 24 hour supervision by someone who is awake to make sure no pups get sqaushed/suffocated).

kid · 06/06/2010 23:37

I keep thinking about the best type of dog for us and I keep swaying between a springer and a cocker. I think I would prefer a cocker as they are slightly smaller and we would most likely be able to get a different colour/marking to Moby. I don't want to be reminded of what we lost everytime I looked at the new dog.

Would you say a cocker was a safer bet with regards to the testing?

DH is quite keen on a Springer though so might need to discuss it with him to see if I can convince him!

I seriously could not get a dog neutered. I know there are pros to getting them neutered but I just couldn't do it. I had no idea Moby could die. I could never go through that again. Its taking me a long time to come to terms with his death. I've still not completely accepted it yet but I am being strong for my DC.

I know there is no way a vet could guarantee with 100% certainty that my dog would be safe so therefore I just couldn't do it.
I think the odd of it happening to Moby were something like 1 in 1000. I know thats low but it still happened to my pup.

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kid · 06/06/2010 23:42

I just read your link on Springer spaniels and saw a bit about heart disease but it said its not hereditary. Moby either had heart disease, an anuerysm or a stroke. We will never know for sure.

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midori1999 · 06/06/2010 23:51

As far as I am aware, Cockers have less hereditary health problems, eye testing is the only reccomended test for them (PRA) but some breeders do also hip score. If you can find one, the fact they hip score too, even though it's not generally recommended shows they are taking extra care about the health of puppies they breed. I would say Cockers are probably a little easier than Springers too. Several of my friends own them and they are wonderful family pets.

Did your vet not discuss with you the potential risks of neutering before the surgery? If not, I can understand why it was even more of a shock. I think though, if you are going to get a male dog you really do have to consider that it may become necessary to neuter him for his own health, happiness or survival in the case of something like testicular cancer.

kid · 07/06/2010 11:56

The vet never mentioned any risk at all. I asked lots of questions about his recovery and if there were any risks involved. I did this all by email as that's how I booked the appt. At no time was I told of any risk. Even when I took him in no-one mentioned any risks.

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CountryGirl2007 · 07/06/2010 12:03

I would avoid popular breeds as they tend to be overbred (especially cavaliers unfortunatly) also brachycephalic breeds as they have their own issues, and dogs that are bred to be "mini" or "teacup".

Most Terriers seem to be very hardy, collie types tend to be another long lived dog and greyhounds aren't prone to any genetic diseases and are long lived for a largeish dog.

Giant dogs tend to have shorter lifespans and are prone to more health problems, i.e. great danes, newfoundlands etc.

kid · 07/06/2010 12:14

So, would a cocker spaniel seem like a good choice of dog?
I know DH was keen on a springer but know he would also accept a cocker.

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minimu1 · 07/06/2010 12:33

Kid you poor thing I do feel for you. Generally research the breed you want and then check they breeder has all the tests done and do study the results.

When you bring your new pup home in the first 24 hours take it to another vet and get a through check over. You can never in life quarantee against illness but if you have done all of the above you are on the way.

Do get all vaccines done and then take a deep breath and enjoy the new dog that is so lucky to have found you for an owner.

To get things back into balance for you I have worked out that I have owned 24 dogs in my life and all have been neutered/spayed and not one had any reaction. Dogs are like children they can come with or without problems but generally they can be managed. You cannot quarantee a dog that has no problems as you are aware but what happened to you was so rare. I am aware that you know all this but just thought reading it more and more may reasure that things will be alright next time around!

In answer to your question I reckon a cocker would be a fab pet for your family - lots of healthy walks and fun ahead!

kid · 07/06/2010 12:56

Thank you minimu1

I'm at work today, first day back since losing Moby and have already cried twice. Got a meeting to go to in 1/2 hour so need to pull myself together. Am meant to be on lunch now but I'm avoiding the staffroom. Evernyone is really chatty, talking about theoir great halfterm but I can't even pretend to be happy at the moment. I know it will get better in time, I just wish it would hurry up, its not good feeling like this.

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Alouiseg · 07/06/2010 13:07

There are never any guarantees however "well" you choose your breeder. My Bulldog ( yes, silly choice but was love at first sight) came from a KC registered breeder, his pedigree is outstanding, the breeders are thoughtful and knowledgeable but at the age of 7 months he has had 3 general anaesthetics. He has had a urethral prolapse which relapsed and had to be removed and he has elbow dysplasia which will need an MRI scan and corrective surgery.

I was so sad when I read your post about your poor little pup dying, he was the same age as mine and it was my biggest fear when he had his first ga.

I really hope that you find another dog soon, I'm not surprised you are struggling at work, I would be just as emotional.

kid · 07/06/2010 15:59

Home from work with a huge sigh of relief. Tomorrow could be worse as the children are back (was INSET today) and I have a feeling they know what happened. Well I did abandon them on the bus!

Will avoid the parents but am hoping the kids have forgotten. 1 week is a long time to them, but not long enough for me.

I have a 'surrogate' bulldog at the moment. She is adorable and loves cuddles. My kids are besotted with her and it has been a huge help for us. Luckily my wonderful neighbours have trusted us with a set of keys and free access to their beloved dog. I am so grateful that they have helped us in our time of need. To think I only met them at the end of last year through Moby.

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oxocube · 07/06/2010 17:00

Oh kid, poor you. I know how you feel about going back to work. I also teach and my dog was PTS on Monday evening back in February(he only went to the vets that morning as he had been off his food, didn't want to go out etc and I thought maybe he had a viral infection. Within 2 hours of finding out he had cancer, he was PTS and 2 days after that, I had to go back to school.

All the kids knew - 2 of my own kids go to the same school so it was common knowledge within hours - but the worst thing was going into the staff room on the Wednesday morning to find a beautiful guide dog there with its owner. A colleague who works part time and didn't know my dog had died introduced me as "this is oxo, she also has a dog, bla bla bla"

Am terribly sorry about Moby but I'm guessing (and I know that this is no consolation whatsoever) that with a heart condition, he could have died prematurely under other circumstances than the GA. You gave him a fabulous 7 months. There are no guarantees in life about anything sadly.

kid · 08/06/2010 16:45

Work was ok today, I'm finding it too hard to pretend to be happy so I'm not bothering. If people think I'm sad or miserable, they will just have to accept it.
One teacher asked today how I was feeling, I just replied that I'm ok if no-one talks to me or asks me questions. I then had a cry on the way to pick DC up from school.
My surrogate dog is here at the moment, snoring away beside me!

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