My dog is getting neutered next Tuesday and ...

[Madsometimes]

a woman in the park has roundly criticised me for doing this .

She thinks that I am going to mutilate my dog and artificially try to manipulate his personality. It is true that she is an experienced dog person, has shown dogs at crufts etc, and I am a first time owner who has a lot to learn.

I said to her that she was making me feel bad about sending Patch for his op, and she said, "Good, so you should."

When I explained that my dog is a cross breed, and cannot be compared to her medal winning dogs, she said that she has dogs which she has never bred from but which are intact. She thinks that I should tough out the teenage years and that there is no difference between a neutered 3 year old and an intact dog. She said that it is responsible to spay a bitch, but is cruel and unnecessary to neuter a dog.

I'm still going to send my dog for his op on Tuesday, but it was quite upsetting.

I'm sorry but most people who show dogs at crufts are a bit warped about over-breeding for "desired" characteristics, so I wouldn't give a hoot about what she says. BBC pulling the programme says a lot (((hides in corner and awaits onslaught from show dog owners)))

There IS a huge difference between a neutered 3yo dog and an intact dog!!

A neutered 3yo/ 5yo/ 10yo dog will not EVER have testicular cancer and is very unlikely to develop prostate problems or anal adenomas (testosterone-dependant tumours around the anus)

Something like 70% of all dogs hit by cars are unneutered males- go figure.

A neutered 3yo dog will not become upset by all his instincts telling him to go out and mate, when the bitch next door (or in the next street!) is in heat, while his owner restricts him from doing so

It's nothing to do with changing his personality. The arrival of testosterone changes a puppy's personality slightly, removing it changes it just as slightly.

And this attitude that it is "responsible" to spay a bitch but "cruel" to neuter a dog make my blood boil- spaying a bitch involves a full hysterectomy + ovarioectomy. It is major abdominal surgery as opposed to the simple 15 minute procedure for neutering a dog!

I have no beef with people who choose not to get their dog neutered for their own reasons, but I get when they try to force their (poorly researched) views onto people who didn't ask for their opinion (you didn't, right?)

Send your dog on tuesday, happy with the knowledge that it is a fairly simple procedure, and is in the interests of his future health and happiness.

Also you don't want him running off because he can smell a bitch on heat or humping your leg when he's feeling randy. You are being a responsible dog owner, good on you!

Jooly put it better than me

She then went on to say that neutering is done for the benefit of vets .

It is hardly the same as silly cosmetic surgery. I am still quite upset, but better get of MN and collect my children now.

Well, I'm a vet, and I neutered my own dog for his sake, not mine!!

We make far more money from an RTA (broken leg, xray, fluid therapy will set you back about 5 times what neutering will cost you!) Also make a fair amount from anal adenomas/ prostate problems, testicular cancer- all of which require ongoing treatments than the one-off (often competitive price!) we charge for neutering So, from a financial POV, we would probably be better off if people didn't neuter their dogs..also means more stray puppies for us to treat.

I wonder if, as a "Cruft's showperson" she believes in tail-docking- cos that's not "silly cosmetic surgery" now, is it?

I thought you might be Jooly

I actually do think there are more medical benefits to spaying bitches than neutering dogs. However, that doesn't make it cruel to neuter your dog.

Whatg a lot of people seem to miss is that a lot of problems people associate with not being neutered are actually behavioural problems and won't be cure dby neutering. Neutered dogs might be less inclined to run off, or hump you leg/other dogs, but proper training and management also prevents dogs running off (or under cars) or humping, just as proper management and training prevents unwanted pregnancies in unspayed bitches.

That said, neutering isn't such a major op for a dog as a bitch, and almost everyone who does neuter their dog does so as they are trying to be a responsible dog owner, which is no doubt the reason you are choosing to neuter.

I always said I would never neuter a dog unless there was a medical reason to do so, but having recently taken in a rescue dog pup we are now keeping, and having three entire bitches in the house, neutering really is the kindest thing to do and I certainly think I am being less cruel by doing it.

Yes, good point Jooly! Tail docking does indeed seem like a silly cosmetic procedure!

I think what has upset me more than anything is that I have met such a wonderful group of people in my wanderings around the park. Until today every single person has been delightful company. We start talking about the dogs, but conversation often moves onto other things. Rather like with children at the school gate, you learn the dog's name first, and then the owner's. I actively walk at a certain time of the day in the hope that I will bump into certain people, even if I do not know their names.

I suppose like all walks of life, people are people and we all have different views. Some people are zealots and do not mind who they upset in their crusade.

Personally I think that having an un-neutered adult male who starves himself due to desire for three weeks every time there is a bitch in heat within 1 mile is far more cruel. Now I'm not saying all them go to this extreme, but this does happen.
And having had to euthanase a 5 year old un-neutered dog due to an inoperable prostatic tumour in the last month. I am all for neutering.
You are a responsible dog owner with your dog's best interest at heart. I would be a much wealthier vet if I encouraged people not to neuter.

Well said Jooly. Another vet here very pro neutering for health reasons, not behavioural reasons except in a minority of cases - and of course the obvious contraceptive reasons of course!

Madsometimes, I'm another vet coming out of the woodwork

I don't advise owners whether to neuter or not. I present them with the relevant information and outline the risks and benefits then allow them to make their own decision. If you have discussed the intended course of action with your vet and made the decision once fully informed then it will be the right thing for you to do and you can do it with confidence.

The crazy lady person you met in the park is obviously a loon. It's not her point of view that makes me say that, but the fact that she thinks her opinion so important that it warrants lambasting strangers in parks. Anyone that wonky is one to ignore, IMO

i am getting this from my dad about our pups, which i said will be getting booked in as soon as they are old enough.

'oh its cruel, would you like it doen to you'

i just shrugged and said, 'they are being done, thats it'

I used to hear this a lot when i was a vet nurse. The other one was 'we want to let her have a litter so she knows what its like to be a mummy'

Righto.

chesgirl- no, don't you know-it is apparently good for them to have a litter.

Funnily enough MY doctor never even suggested that I might be better to get myself up the duff then give the baby away to enhance my health. Because the huge physiological stress that pregnancy and paturition imposes on the body has to be a good thing, doesn't it?

When I ask my clients why they think this will be a good thing for their bitch, they don't have an answer. It's another of those things that "everyone knows"

We have just had a lovely weekend in Whitstable. Patch had a dip in the sea, and is now covered with a lovely mud/algae mix and smells like old fish. He shall be having a bath tomorrow so that he is as fresh as a daisy for Tuesday. I would be far too to present a dog to anyone in the state he is. He did have a marvellous time though, and so did we.

Oh yes its all coming back to me now Jooly. When I used to ask them why they wouldnt get their bitch neutered (or spay-did as it was referred to) the stock answer was 'well its cruel init?'

Unlike mating your dog with any old dog regardless of size and then allowing her to give birth to litter after litter of unwanted puppies and then removing them at around 4 weeks

Madsometimes - I would love to hear about your dogs recovery as I am planning on getting my dog neutered too.

Out of interest, what type of dog is he?

our woofa lost his balls in feb ( i think)

there are some funny threads on pets about it written by him aka bella

he was/is fine and would do it again with another dog

Kid - He is a cockapoo, and is 7 months old.

Blondes - Yes I remember reading about Woofa! His threads were brilliant .

I saw the lady in the park today, but skirted around in the other direction to avoid her - I'm a wimp I know, but I do not like confrontation. I did off-load to some of my doggie friends, and they told me to ignore her too. She has a reputation for being fixed in her views, so I am feeling a lot better today.

Just to make you feel better re confrontations in the park. When I used to walk in the country park near my old house, there was a guy there who considered himself an expert on dogs (fo no other reason, apparently, than that he had one!) I have 2 beagles. My bitch is not too bad off the lead, but my male dog used to put his nose to the ground and disappear. I could have been standing there waving a pound of sausages, and he'd still run off. After years of this, and with a newborn in the pram, I decided just to keep him on a long lead to save the hassle. Every time I met this guy, he would give me a lecture about how I should be able to control the dog off the lead, he should be off the lead, if he had that dog for 2wks it would be walking fine off the lead etc etc etc etc. I tried explaining politely, but was told that he knew all about dogs, and every time he saw a dog on the lead it told him there was something wrong with the owner

This went on for weeks, although I tried to avoid him, he always seemed to find me. One day I met him after a particularly awful night where dd had been up every 20 minutes, and I was exhausted and emotional. He started his usual rant at me, and I just snapped I asked him what harm it was doing him, my dog being on the lead. He started again. I'm afraid I told him to wind his neck in, mind his own business, and stop being an asshole

HE went out of his way to avoid ME after that, and many of the other dog walkers came up to congratulate me- turns out they were all sick of him too. Not recommending this as a course of action, btw, just saying that although there are lots of lovely fellow dog-walkers, you'll always get one!

Dog has been dropped off to the vets. I have used the time to tidy without being ambushed by a curious puppy. Just sitting down for a quiet cup of tea and MN time .

There was a lovely springer at the vet who had cut her paw on broken glass. The owners said that they saw teenagers deliberately smashing glass on the path, and the dog just ran over the shards. I'm sure she will be fine, but she was crying. People make me .

Patch is home now, with a big collar on. He is fine, but was starving because he had been not eaten for 18 hours. The vet nurse said eat little and often, but Patch has had other ideas. He is currently trying to figure out how to get the collar off himself.

It is nice to have him home, I was missing him.

Glad to hear he is back home and doing well.
My pup will be going in next week for the snip.

I'm interested to hear how quickly your dog bounces back. I want to take my dog to puppy training class 3 days after the op which I know is being a bit ambitious.

glad went well and home

10.5 stone woofa also had the collar of shame -