My poor little ratties

[OrmRenewed]

Are not well. One is worse than the other. She is lethargie, very sleepy. She eats OK and responds to attention. But she had lots of porpyria in her eyes. We lost their little sister abotu 6 weeks ago (she died in DD's hands )and since she died I have taken the other 2 to the vets for a check up. He thought they were OK but not exactly 100% so gave them some anti-parasite injections because of the red eyes and because one of them has scabs under their fur. The scabs have cleared a little but this lethargy has developed.

I have an appalling track record with my rats I lost the other 2 to an infection when they weren't even 2 years old.

THey are loved, fed well, kept clean. What could it be? Vet is nice but seems at a loss with rats.

If we lose these I am seriously thinking of not getting anymore.
Anyone got any advice

Orm - I assume vet treated them for mites? Are they sneezing or anything? I feel for you. We lost 2 of ours so now only have Chocolate left.

How is their breathing? Is that OK? Rats are very prone to respiratory problems. How old are they? We have had 5 rats over the past 4 years and a couple of these definitely died of "old age" at around 2.5 years. They don't live as long as pet shops etc. advertise.

No sneezing. I don't think it's respiratory - no laboured breathing or sneezing. Yes he treated them for mites and any other nasties. They were born to a very young rescued doe so I guess she might have been carrying something horrible that she passed on.

I've decided to take them back to the vets tonight. Can't just let them fade away.

How is your lone rat coping? that is my biggest dread atm - how will Boris cope on her own having got used to being with 2 sisters.

They will be 2 in December so definitely too young for 'old age'.

OK. Are you a member of the fancy rats forum. There is lots of good advice to be found there, and lots of people who can tell you what to ask your vet to check for. It seems to be fairly common that a lot of vets don't know very much about them.

Thanks purplefrog - I am but I haven't been there for ages. In fact I got my girls from there, a rat breeder who was given their mother by the person who found them. Feel a bit ashamed that I've managed to make them so ill

Chocolate is fine on his own. He was the quietest one of teh 3 and really doesn't seem to mind whether he gets any human company or not. I try to take him out for a while every night but after walking over me abit he just plonks himself down at teh end of teh sofa and goes to sleep until I put him back in teh cage. I though he would miss Brownie as they spend so much time cuddled up together but to be honest as long as he has food he really seems to not care he is on his own. We swithered about getting another pair to keep him company but rat intros seem so problematic and also we got tehm forthe dc and they don't seem that interested any more.
Much as I love pet rats I can't get over how prone they seem to be to illness.

It is odd isn't it haggis. Considering the hard lives they lead in the wild - pet ratties are in clover really

Rats normally get mites when they are already under the weather or run down. Is your vet a rat specialist? It really does help, maybe he can refer you to one if he is not?

I am obviously not a vet, but am a very experienced rat keeper. I woudl discuss anti-biotics with him, sometims resp. problems can linger for ages without any obvious side effects. Also, there is an avian supplement you can also give ot rats which really gives them a boost, 'Avipro' I think it's called, it is a thick bright orange paste you have to warm before giving to liquify it, your vet will know what it is. That will give them a general boost.

What are you feeding them?

OrmRenewed - don't feel it is your fault. These things happen sometimes. Let us know how you get on at the vet.

Our last girl was on her own for about 6 months after her last cagemate died. She seemed to cope just fine. It was just a shame it was her who was left alone as she was never a cuddly rat. She always had to sink her teeth into anything and everything that came her way - not maliciously - but painful sometimes! She was a real character, though, and it was a sad day when she was put to sleep.

They have rat mixture and fresh veg and fruit. Occasional cold pasta and bit of cheese but not much. They also get those little milk drops for small animals.

I will speak to the vet about anti-bs and avipro. Not he isn't a rat specialist - I don't know of one round here who is tbh. He seems fairly good though - the other vet who has now left offered to have one of old rats PTS as soon as we took her in

Made an appointment for 4.50. Dh has to take them and DD will supervise

First question he asked DH was 'do you want to treat them' DH said 'Of course we do' a bit hotly - he's not too keen on them but he'll be damned if he'll give any beast a sentence of death until there's no choice (even after he's sat in a crowded waiting room for an hour being irritated entertained by one his pupils and her mother ). So vet gave them an injection of baytril and some more to give them every day for the next 10 days.

Problem is we were told to give it in a dropper into their mouths or in their water bottle - I'm not sure they'll drink enough so wanted to give it direct but followed the instructions to dilute it for the bottle. Bugger! I've given them one direct dose each but now there isn't enough to dose them for 10 days. I will have to try with the stuff in the bottle as well I suppose and then give them another direct dose on Sunday.

One of them is still quite floppy but both eating well. And so pleased to be cuddled and stroked. They took their medecine like little angels - so unlike my cat

We always gave our rats Baytril in runny food - yoghurt, baby food or melted ice cream. We would mix it with a cocktail stick into half a teaspoon of the "treat". The boys would take this anywhere but the girls refused to take it outside their cage, which meant a teaspoon of treat for everyone and some careful juggling to make sure the right rat got the medicine!

If they are still eating well it sounds as if they are not too bad.

Surely you can get some more Baytril from the vet if you run out? It is important to keep dosing them for long enough to kill the bug.

Fingers crossed for your ratties.

Thanks purplefrog.

They are both determinedly eating inspite of the fact they can't walk or stand straight .

I had another look in the bottle and there is more than I thought. But if I run out I will ring for some more.

Are they walking in circles and head tilting? If it's head tilt (usually inner ear infection) then they usually end up with lasting neurological damage and never appear 'normal' again, although once recovered fromt he actual infection live perfectly happy lives.

Baytril isn't the best antibitoic for rats, and they will get a burn at the injection site. (better that than an even sicker rat though, the burns do soon clear up)

I would ask your vet to recommend a rat specialist or ask on the Fancy Rats forum for a specialist vet in your area. They can use a combination of antibiotics, not baytril, or baytril in combination with something else, which will be more effective. They can also give steroids which will help, and you can continue to give these at home if the vet thinks the rat needs it.

I find the most effective way to give antibiotics is to use a syringe and hold the rat and 'force' feed it the neat antibiotics from the syringe.

You might find egg food helps the rats keep condition on when they are sick, or otherwise cooked and mashed hard boiled eggs with breadcrumbs and some warm milk/lactol can help. Rats aren't lactose intolerant. Curly kale is especially good for rats too, they can have some each day.

Thanks midori. Yes they are - but not actually walking much

I am giving them the bactril in a syringe with some apple juice. They are very fond og broccoli but I have no curly kale. They struggle with hard food atm - is it OK to give them cheese, I know it's not good long-term but it's high calorie and easy to eat and they love it. Managing banana atm.

They aren't much better but they aren't worse. Which is good as I know rats can go down hill fast Still eating well but having to be fed (well one of them is) as she can't 'hold' the food. And can't eat hard food - so giving her cheese, brocolli, banana and apple. Also giving her water in a pipette.

I hope they are ok.

You can get 'eggfood' from Pets at Home or Jollyes. It is meant for rearing birds but really good for sick rats. If you make it up with warm milk it goes like a mash and will be easy for them to eat. Plus, they love it so will be encouraged to eat it and it it brill for old or sick rats. EMP is a good make. It's not expensive.

Otherwise, try some bread soaked in milk with some mashed hard boiled egg mixed in. Or weetabix with warm milk.

You can get curly kale in Asda or Tesco and freeze it, just thawing what you need each day so it isn't wasted.

Other things that are good and might tempt them are sunflower and pumkin seedes, dry wholemeal bread, cooked pasta or rice, cooked chicken and natural youghurt.

Keeping them warm and free of draughts can also help.

Thanks midori.

I can only give the really bad one soft food atm. I am hand-feeding her.

But honestly am I kidding myself If she is still floppy and lop-sided and not moving well and eating on her own successfully yet.... how long to get significant improvment? It's breaking my heart to see her.

I think the floppy would really worry me. In all honesty I would only see a specialist rat vet these days, it can make all the difference. A steroid injection might make a difference to her, as might a second antibiotic. My own vet has used a course of baytril injections for very bad inner ear infeactions and I suspect the rat treated this way would have died without a course.

That said, rats with head tilt can look alarming. Can the rat in question walk on it's own at all? I have found in really bad cases they can only walk in circles and keep flling over very badly. They certainly couldn't climb. I always put any sick rats in a 'hospital' cage that is one level only though to prevent any falls as they will sometimes try to climb when they really can't.

I think if I had a rat that couldn't eat by itself at all, I might ask the vet to try a course of baytrill injections, plus steroids, combined with a second oral antibiotic and if there was no improvement in a few days then it is probably kinder to the rat to PTS. Obviously the absence of a friend could make the other rat decline sadly.

Hi Midori,

she's still with us this morning. She can walk but it's an effort. She's still eating like a good 'un.

There are no nearby rat specialists as far as I can see from Fancy Rats. I am going to ring my vet again and ask him about steroid injections.

But I am calling it a day with rats. I can't cope with this anymore. I love them so much, they are delightful funny affectionate but I can't stand how sick they seem to get. My last 2 died of something similar - but they went downhill so fast there wasn't anything the vet could do and they had to be PTS. I wept for about 2 days solid

Not doing it again.

I still have my fingers crossed for your ratties.

If you are worried about a balanced soft diet, one thing you can do is get Pets At Home rat nuggets and cover them with boiling water to soften them. Once this has cooled you mix them up to get a sort of thick porridge. You can then add some honey if you like.

(Note that this mixture can set like concrete - worse than weetabix - so don't leave it lying around too long.)

Don't be put off rats. If you can source some from a good breeder, you will be far less likely to experience them suffering from illness. I have had relatively few problems and usuallu have around 25 plus rats here. Most of my rats are hardy and haven't had any problems.

Pet shops/rescue rats aren't usually bred for health or longevity, so you are more likely to get problems.

It is heartbreaking to lose any pet though, so I can understand how you feel. Hopefully your two will pull through.

Thanks both.

Renee is on her last legs. No doubt about it. She can't eat, isn't cleaning herself, only drimks when we five her a pipette to drink from. Had a good old howl last night - accompanied by DS#2 and DD. Was expecting her to go last night but she didn't. We have cleaned her up, given her a drink and a clean bed. Will take her to be PTS this evening.

Boris is Ok and has stopped trying to cuddle up to her sister now. I think she knows the end is near

midori - these were from a reputable breeder. Not one's she had bred as she had none available at the time, but the babies of a doe that she rescued when pregnant. So I know they had been cared for well. I wouldn't buy from a pet shop.