Tropical Fish advice please

[AppleTreeWick]

We buried Rosy fish today. DD1 is inconsolable. Anyway it's a new (4 weeks old) tank Rosy was one of two trial fish to see if we have everything set up properly.

so we settled in the water for a week (plus the treatment stuff)
got it up to temperature 75 degrees
bought to Mollys plus a couple of plants
water filter and pump combined (does seem very fierce)

now the DD's did possibly overfeed (until we realised and his the food)

so without an autopsy what should I check for before buying Rosy Mk2?

two Mollys,two no to

and we hid the food...I must be tired, my written english is bad but not this bad

You need sweetnitanitro to come along and advise you she is a font of fishy knowledge! Most likely thing is that you didn't cycle the tank properly, this involves basically putting the tank through the nitrogen cycle before you put any fish in it and can take up to 6 weeks. Keep bumping the thread and Sweetnita will notice it - she's helped me out loads in the past

thank you pegotty i shall bump away and read up on the nitrogen cycle

Tommy Fish is hanging on at the moment

You need a testing kit and to test your ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels. Only when the levels are ok can you add fish.

You need some gravel or water or filter sponge from an established tank which has bugs on to start the cycle.

Everything will spike and then go down, at which point you add fish.

Only add extra fish and plants in small amounts as each time you add something the tank needs to get used to the extra waste and if you add too much at once there'll be another spike and fishy deaths. Zebra danios are quite good, hardy starter fish.

OK great thank you Stripeyknickers I can get water from my BIL & testing kit I shall interwebshopfor.

So I will need to do a few weeks testing levels then slowly adding fish/plants

I thought we were doing so well settling the water for a week clearly shouldnt have listened to man in shop

How big is your tank? Just in case the shop sold you one of those tiny little death traps that are peddled as starter kits.

Otherwise do everything stripey said , the filter sponge is where the good bacteria are at so see if your BiL can snip you a bit off his.

Check your pH and hardness as well to make sure it suits the fish you choose, and make sure the fish won't get too big for the tank.

Hullo Sweetnitrano It's 60l (BIL's old tank he's moved up in the world) is this OK?

I shall go round to snip off bit of sponge at the weekend. Is there anything I can do to give Tommy Fish a fighting chance in the meantime?

60 litres is actually the perfect size for a first tank so you're on the right track there. Mollies are a bit big though, you'd probably be better off with guppies or endlers if you want livebearers, and that's if the water is the right pH and hardness.

To give Tommy a fighting chance you just need to keep testing the water and doing water changes to get the ammonia and nitrIte as close to zero as you can (you may need to do daily water changes) and make sure you use dechlorinator on tap water before you add it to the tank. After a while you will notice that you get a zero reading anyway and this means the tank has cycled. This might explain it all a bit better than I can- www.fishkeeping.co.uk/articles_51/fishless-cycling-article.htm

Many thanks for the link!
& Tommy needs me to change the water daily to get it to zero on the tests. Great thanks - I really don't want to officiate at another fish funeral.

Just to update (this is probably just me obsessing but never mind)

Tommy Fish is still alive! Am changing the water daily (10%) and my BIL is coming round at the weekend to give me some 121 advice.

And despite the mistakes I am really getting into the whole fish thing it's really very calming.

So thank you all again for the tips and advice and signposting.

This is an interesting thread, I have had a few fishy disasters and am now at the point of giving up with them - the trouble is the tank was a present for my daughters 5th birthday. I have been given so much duff advice and now just when I thought everything was hunky dory another fish died today

To cut a long story short, I bought a 35 litre tank, let it cycle for a week added all the potions (nutrafin cycle), it bloomed, got the water tested added two goldfish. All fine, two weeks later added three more (on the advice of the shop ). I left husband in charge for 5 days, he overfed them and they all died (I was with DH and the children inconsolable). So after a break we tried again, this time going tropical, so got a heater, got water tested and stocked with 4 Platies (shop advice), three died as the ammonia had gone up again. Kept the remaining one in the tank to help it cycle. 10 days later got two more platies and last night another died. The other two seem okay at the moment, I have water changed and added more Nutrafin Cycle.

I am trying so hard to make this a success but goodness it is hard work, its a wonder anyone can keep fish alive! And to think we had a goldfish that lived 8 years in an unfiltered tank that my mum used to fill from the tap .

Sorry to hijack but I really need to get that off my chest as I am starting to feel rather disheartened by it all. Still the children are now rather indifferent about death.

Any advice on how to get my flippin' tank full of healthy bacteria and happy fish?

Sorry forgot to add - hooray for Tommy Fish I really hope he continues to do well

Hi Suzie.

Your first problem is that 35 litres isn't big enough to support even the tiniest fish. One day when I am in charge I will ban shops from selling them

Secondly a fishless cycle takes about 6 weeks and only then is it safe to add fish. Have a look at the link I posted a few replies up ^

Thirdly you need to be very careful about what fish you put in, it is tricky but if you get it right then it will make your life a lot easier! This should help you out- Choosing fish

Don't bother with that nutrafin cycle stuff, the only affect it has is on your wallet. IN a properly cycled tank you won't need any extra products other than dechlorinater (like tapsafe or aquasafe), just don't wash your filter pads in tap water and your bacteria will be fine.

If you need to know anything else, just ask I do love wittering on about fish. But I also have a life, honest.

Thanks for the reply.

Firstly I spent quite a lot of money on that tank, and while I now know its not very big, I went for it because it was much bigger than the other ones on sale as starter tanks. With the amount of money we have spent so far getting another tank is not really an option. So we either get rid of it, and cut our losses and have two very disappointed children and not to mention a rather upset mother. I entered this lark with the best of intentions and I feel desperately let down by the advice given by the pet shops. I have to say that if I had killed nine hamsters I doubt I would be allowed to have any more, but with fish they just seem to say here try again.

The tank has been up and running since the end of March, so 6 weeks in total. I only rinse one filter sponge at a time and in the syphoned off water. If these last two die, I think I might cry first and then I really dont know if I have the energy to start again. Sorry I am ranting now, but it makes me mad that I have been given so much rubbish advice, like tank size. First advice is that it will take 5 goldfish, now having researched further that is grossly overstocked so no wonder they all died. Then I was told to start again with 4 platies and then I could add some guppies and tetras and have up to 10 fish. I am so cross petshops are allowed to sell you this rubbish. Yes there are probably people out there who say they are only fish, but I feel terrible. They interact with each other and are fascinating to watch.

Deep breath.... sorry for the rant, I will read the links above. I wonder if I could pursue the shop and get a refund and then a bigger tank?

Thanks again, and feel free to witter on about fish, I love them which is why I feel so blinkin' frustrated

5 goldfish!! Blimey, you need to switch pet shops if you can, that is shocking. I know fish tanks cost a lot of money but really 35 litres is too small. In a small body of water the temperature and pH can change very quickly which can kill fish. Also there's not enough water volume to dilute ammonia and nitrIte if something goes wrong with the filtration.

You can often pick up cheap tanks on ebay and free ones on freecycle! I'd love to be able to recommend a fish for a 35 litre tank but the reality is it's just not suitable. I'm sorry it's bad news but even a really experience fishkeeper would struggle to keep fish healthy in a small tank. You'd be amazed how much easier it is with a bigger tank. 60 litres is an ideal size for beginners.

I don't know much about the legal side of things but I know a couple of people have successfully returned baby biorbs saying that they weren't fit for purpose. That might be worth a go especially since you've been given such woefully crap advice. 5 goldfish indeed, I'd love to give whoever told you that a piece of my mind!! Maybe if you threatened to get trading standards involved they would give you shop credit?

If you need some official-sounding info to go with your complaint then this leaflet from the British Veterinary Association might help (it's a pdf file)- BVA leaflet

And if the shop is a member of the Ornamental Aquatic Trade Association (OATA) then they have to abide by a certain code of conduct (another pdf file)-OATA Code of Conduct It's a lengthy read but if they are members then they have broken the code for sure.

With regards to the 2006 Animal Welfare Act I think the onus is on you as the owner to provide the animal with the correct home etc but as the shop has deliberately given you the wrong information then I think you have a pretty good reason to kick up a stink about it. Good luck, let us know how you get on!

Don't quite agree with a ban on 35 ltr tanks; there are things you can do with a 35 ltr tank, but they are few and many better done by people with a bit of experience. Don't think experienced fishkeepers should be banned from buying fry rearing tanks etc.

But agree that it is disgraceful the way tanks and fish are mis-sold.

The options for a 35 ltr tank are certainly limited.

I run a cherry shrimp tank and that works ok, except the little blighters breed like rabbits, so spread over into my other tanks. Only thing with shrimps is they need a cycled tank.

Fancy snails might be another option.

I don't think a 35 ltr is too small for one betta (Siamese fighter): they can sometimes get a bit lost in bigger tanks and they don't like current so a very basic sponge filter is good.

There are some tiny fish, some rasboras and heterandrias, which wouldn't be badly off in a 35 ltr, but they are often hard to find and some of them are picky about conditions so don't make ideal beginners' fish.

But goldfish I wouldn't keep in anything less than a 200 ltr tank, and then only fancies: imo common goldfish belong in outside ponds.

Platies and guppies also unsuitable, particularly platies which have a high activity level and can get a bit moody with each other if male.

Just an update - the two platies I have are doing fine at the moment. They seems lively enough and are eating. The pet shop are having none of it though with regard to the tank size and recommendation. To be honest I think the manufacturer has some responsibility as it was advertised as a goldfish tank with a suggested colony of 5 fish! I had the water tested again today and was shocked that there is still ammonia in there . I will keep these two fish for as long as I can get them to survive and have advertised on freecycle for a larger tank and will check the local paper. I am also going to write to the shop manager and tank manufacturer. When I went in the shop today they had a special offer on goldfish starter tanks that are 17 litres, that just seems so wrong.

Thanks for all the advice.

hullo again,

Really interested to read about your experience with tanks etc Suziewee good news on the Platies and again really useful replies for beginers so thank you all.

Anyway just wanted to update: Tommy Fish is still alive!

17 litre tanks???? That is so wrong - and a recipe for disappointed children.

35 litre tank would be best used for something like Giant African Land Snails imo.

Suziewee - i hope your platies are the same sex or you will very likely end up with very many more. Mind you in a small tank the fry would probably end up as extra food!