Tips for dealing with dominant puppy, nipping etc

[CantThinkofFunnyName]

Ok - we've just got a labradoodle and he is lovely. But we took him to our new vet last night for his 2nd injections and the first thing the vet said is that from his position etc on the table, he was trying to be very dominant. He asked about mouthing, nipping, body checks, whining, barking etc and how we were dealing with it. Well, tbh, we had a professional puppy trainer in on Sunday, just 2 days after we collected Percy and I understood that all of these things were normal puppy behaviour and we were given, I thought, good techniques for dealing with them by positive reinforcement. For example ignoring all barking and whining. Ignoring excited jumping up, only give attention when all 4 paws on the ground, tell him he is a good boy when he is lying quietly, tips to put food in bowl whilst he is eating to avoid any future food aggression and distracting him from chewing and nipping by providing alternative toys and by using a water pistol to distract him from things he shouldn't be doing. The water pistol is just a little squirt, he mustnt see where it has come from but just interrupt his behaviour. The other thing he said to do with nipping is to place hands around neck to form a necklace and prevent him from moving head to nip/bite and if necessary, force to the floor.

I've been doing loads of research today and feel really confused now because some trainers advocate this; some don't. I have 3 children (DS 11; DD 7 and DD 4 months). The 7 year old is fast becoming quite scared because Percy really goes for her feet and hands and mounting (dominance). DD 4 months is obviously kept well away (or rather he is from her) and DS 11 doing loads of the training with me and is really becoming 2nd in the pack, so to speak.

So, my question is, does anyone have any really good tips, other than those mentioned above, for dealing with the nipping in particular? Also, what are thoughts on the "submission" method for when he has nipped too hard or aggressively? And also, how do we really know whether he is being dominant or just doing the puppy teething thing?

Finally - how long does it typically take for them to get the gist of "I'm the leader of the pack"... yeah, I know, how long is a piece of string!

Yours confusedly and hoping for some advice.

I would have to say that the whole "dominance" school of thought is VERY outdated,and there is absolutely no good evidence to support it. This includes all the stuff such as making a dog submit,and asserting yourself as "leader of the pack"
That isnot to say that he shouldn't learn that you are in charge, butit isimportant not to get that idea mixed up in the whole "dominance" story.
Firstly I would suggest you find yourself another vet asap, asto suggest your dog is "dominant" because of how he stand on the table is absolute and utter rubbish.
All the behaviours you describe are totally normal puppy behaviours. Yes,they are undesirable, and yes he does need to learn that they are not how heisexpected to behave, but they have NOTHING todo with dominancve.
Some of the advice from your trainer sounds good. I would however NOT recommend using a water pistol, or the hands round the neck.Personally I would look for another trainer that uses only Positive Training. Basically what you need to do is constantly praise and reward the behaviours you like as this will increase their freequency. Then ignore the behaviours you dont want. This may mean turning your back when he is jumping etc...For nipping a lot of people use a loud "ouch"as soon as puppy does it,then withdrawing attention for a short time....
Puppies will chew, it is important to provide him with lots of chew toys and then do your best to minimise his chances of chewing anything else...(eg Crate him when he is unsupervised, dont leave kids toys lying around etc)
Training a dog or puppy is hard work, and constantly ongoing, but if you use positive methods now you will reap the rewards later on
Good luck with him. He sounds lovely!

Totally agree with OverflowingMummy.

Find an Adpt trainer near you.

here

Our pup was full-on when we got her. She's now ten months and pretty good. We used clickers to reward for being good. She got a little pushy about wanting to be on sofas and beds and we made it clear that that wasn't going to happen, but apart from that it's just been a case of making sure to praise her when she's playing gently and walking away with a 'growly' no, when she's been too boisterous.

A really good low growl does get attention from a dog. On two occasions when she was being nasty to our old and ailing dog I scruffed her.

Your vet is stone age. Possibly an excellent clinician but knows jack shit about behaviour! Your puppy is not being dominant.

Agree that not all of what trainer has suggested is wise - water pistol and neck holds likely to elevate anxiety levels and lead to more problems than they solve.

Look up an APDT trainer and start afresh. Oh, and this book is an excellent introduction to dog training. Have fun

Thanks so much everyone. My DH agrees with you all about the vet btw! He had dogs all his childhood - up to about 21 and said he is just normal and of course we need to train him as to what's acceptable to us and what isn't but he doesn't believe he's too dominant at all.

Amazing how words like that from a vet can freak you out. Stupid man. I was really stressing about how I should be dealing with it, when I'm already doing the right things (with exception of water pistol and pushing/holding down). The wrong techniques were banished as of yesterday afternoon and the yelping/ouch, withdrawal of attention and crating for time out is working a treat. Also have him waiting for me to go in doorways first rather than letting him dash in ahead. Feeling much more positive today and have a "can do" attitude. Not expecting miracles or overnight results but we're certainly on the right track. Many thanks to everyone for your words of wisdom and support.

I will undoubtedly be back often for more chat!

Yay well done Canthinkoffunnyname.

OMG want to brag . Had him walking on and OFF the lead to heel around and around the garden for AGES .

With the help of lots of Coachies treats and a clicker of course!!

Now he's inside and in his playpen so I can feed baby, he's not particularly happy and whining - but hey, he'll get used to it.

lol @ bedlam.

The vet should be euthanised before he does any more damage!

You have got some good advice and I don't need to add to it. However, this thread reminded me of a ridiculous load of no sense my PIL's vet told them and they still think it makes sense today...

Puppy kept pooing in the bathroom. In laws didn't witness but found the 'evidence' later, took puppy back to bathroom, rubbed nose in it and chastised. Obviously puppy continued to poo in the bathroom and in laws didn't understand so asked the vet. The vet said that the puppy knew the bathroom was the right place to poo as the humans went there, so when it got told off it thought it was being told off as the poos weren't big enough, hence continued to poo in that room. They truly believed the vet and heaven knows how they got the pup toilet trained in the end.

I never know whether to laugh my head off that anyone could be so stupid, be amazed that puppy didn't turn out a wreck or cry that puppy was put through such nonsense. All three I think!

LOL @ Midori PIL vet! That really is ridiculous - even puppy novice that I am can see that!! Poor little mite.

Well I am pleased to say that Percy is still doing well. Needing to be very patient with the training but I am seeing results, which is always good for the self-esteem. Also, my "monthly friend" has now disappeared which I think makes the mountain now much more of a molehill IYKWIM! Tsk - who'd be a woman with 3 DCs inc a 4 month old baby and a puppy to look after having to deal with hormones and a rubbish vet too!!

We are able to go out this weekend so planning a little 20 minute walk every day so he can explore. Aaaaaah.

That book ohfuck mentioned is really good. Also Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson, and Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor. I would really recommend you read all of them.

My pup is 6 months and still leaps around a lot but doesn't nip any more. He's quite nicely behaved really.

Thanks. I've got 3 books, plus a DVD plus have done loads of internet research, had a puppy trainer in and spending lots of time each day, broken into 10-15 minute segments on training, so think we're getting there. The nipping is the only thing I'm most concerned with getting stopped, the rest will come with time and patience, although we are seeing results on the nipping too. When he nips, we're yelping OUCH and crating him for 5 minutes. He then comes out sits and licks us and gets a belly rub in return.

Just had first outing. Don't know why I bothered with the clicker and treats. He soooooo didn't deserve any and wasnt interested when I tried to get him to heel . What an exciting time for a little pup. Note to self, next time take flask of cold water and bowl, even if it is a 5 minute walk around the block - he was beside himself .

our choc lab was v dominant and scaring the children at about 4/5 months.The vet advised we had him neutered as soon as possible and it did make a difference.

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bugger, just posted a long msg, and for 2nd time today it didn't post (hence the test!!)

They really calm down anyway though - no need for drastic measures. Mine used to be so wild, despite all my best training efforts, but at almost 7 months now he never nips, hardly jumps up, really is very well-behaved, knows his main commands perfectly. The only annoying thing is the determined food-nicking efforts!! He has few qualms about jumping up for a lick of the kitchen surface, even when I'm standing right there

Not a doodle, btw, a goldie

Romanarama, I have a goldie too I can't believe how smart she is although I'm sure its just the breed in general. Today she has learned to 'high five' and is learning to stay. The last few weeks have been a bit 'nippy' but I can see the progress every week. We try to change the mood, as it seems to be a certain time every evening when she gets a little hyper, either by taking her out for a walk, even if its just for a couple of minutes, or doing some clicker training. She is incredibly greedy and will do anything for a bit of ham or cheese

Two small walks this morning and much much better. Walked beautifully by side most of the time. Stopped and looked each time a car went past, went potty for attention each time we passed a human and several lovely people actually stopped to admire him and pet him. Yes, we are finally cracking it.

ooookkkk I have had three dogs and each was dominant. To control it I acted like the pack leader. I mean come on it's still a dog part of the canine family, no different from a wolf so the psychology is no different. What I did was when they nipped me I acted like an alpha dog would, I make my hand like a dogs mouth would be and gently place around the dogs esophagus. The first time I pinned each pup it took 20 to 30 minutes until they relaxed after that it was only a few minutes and know I have three model dogs who listen and do everything I ask of them. The trick is to have expectations not requests. But if you want your dog to not always listen to you and be the "boss" listen ti the other people.

It's commonly known that dogs are nothing like wolves and the dominance theory has long been debunked. 'man is not ape, dog is not wolf'.

Lacey, I would ask MN to remove your last post, you are going to get absolutely slaughtered. Good luck!