To spay or not to spay. That is the question.

[tulpe]

Ruby MacScooby is now 4 months old (she is a hungarian vizsla for those of you unfamiliar with my posts about the Rubes-monster ). DH and I were originally set on the idea of no pups. However, now we have her, I can't help but feel it might be nice for her to have pups - at least one litter. If we went ahead, I would definitely keep one of the litter.

Am I being too sentimental about this? Would it be better to have her spayed and not have any pups at all?

Obviously, I wouldn't consider letting her become pregnant until at least 2 years of age.

What's it like coping with a bitch in season - I have no idea what to expect with that at all!!

We have a girl cat whom we had spayed. I can't help but feel some regret that we didn't allow her to have at least one litter.

If we did allow Rubes to have a litter, we definitely won't be doing it for financial reasons - I understand the massive outlay involved! This is purely an emotional decision.

All comments welcome!

I wouldn't do it personally because it is a huge responsibility finding good homes and being there years down the line if any if them need rehoming for any reason. Sorting out all the relevant checks, making sure the birth goes OK and knowing when to call the vet if things start to go wrong. Bringing the puppies up, the weaning, worming, early socialisation, first jabs etc all seems a huge amount to be coping with, never mind being at the end of the phone whenever needed to help out the puppies owners.

My dogs just going into season as our vet recommends speying after the first season so I don't know what it is like yet. I've been told it varies a lot from dog to dog. Mine's a bit out of sorts and hacked off not to be going in the woods but we can't take her as on the way out two days ago before we realised, she got accosted by 4 off lead male dogs at the same time. I'm just hoping she isn't as as friend's dog who is apparently renacting scenes out of Chain Saw Massacre

All our bitches have always been spayed before their first season, but with our youngest (11 months) we had to let her have her season first, so her growth plates would fuse properly. She's just come out of season and honestly I'm glad we'll never have to go through it again! Maybe it was just because it was her first season, but her bits were grossly swelled and she bled very heavily for the whole three weeks - she was just utterly miserable! Not to mention the fact that she was nuts - last week she dug up the kitchen lino and ate it because we locked her in

If you really want to have a litter you need to look into it very closely. We had one from our lab two years ago and I spent about a year thinking about it beforehand!

We found a good dog, looked at his pedigree and medical records, looked at previous litters etc. We then spent ages finding homes in advance, and getting deposits....

We had four confirmed homes before they were born, (there were 7 puppies), one the day after they were born and then spent a very stressful several months looking for homes for the remaining two. In the end only one went to someone we didn't know, but it was hard - and we were prepared to keep the 2nd one rather than let it go somewhere we weren't sure about. I vetted the "strangers" very carefully, and it has worked out well.

You will not make any money out of it, our costs were almost covered, not taking into account the hard work, and cleaning equipment required to look after 7 puppies.....or the damage to the garden, and various household items.

However, it is a wonderful thing to be involved with, it will teach children a lot, and you will have a lovely puppy for yourselves.

By all means go ahead, but you must be realistic about the hard work, potential heartbreak, and chaos that will come with puppies. The puppy that we kept is wonderful, but I am not planning to breed from her, as I don't feel that we could find enough suitable homes.

No it wouldn't be nice for her to have pups. There's enough unwanted animals out there. She's a dog if she's neutered and never has pups she won't feel at all deprived. Don't project human feelings onto an animal.

The responsibilities of breeding are enormous, the pups should be tested for conditions common to their breed, as should the bitch and the father,your dog should only be bred if she's an excellent example of her breed standard,even then that's not reason enough.
A good breeder will be willing to take back any of the pups at any time in their lives if the owner is no longer willing or able to keep them. Are you prepared to do that?

Have a look at this please

Has she got no breeding restrictions on her papers? If she has it won't simply be up to you whether you breed her, her breeder will have a say.

At 4 months old she is FAR too young for you to know if she is even going to be good enough to breed, in terms of health, temprement of conformation. You cannot have her hip scored/elbow scored until at least a year old and in a breed likea Visla, the ideal age for breeding would be 2-3, so she will need to have 2-4 seasons before you can breed her and each one is putting her health potentially at risk. Every time she has a season the risk of mammary tuomours go up, even if you have her spayed later and after her fourth season there is no benefit re: mammary tumours if you spay. There is also a risk of pyometra each time she has a season, which is extremely dangerous and may be hard for a novice owner to spot fast enough to save her.

Breeding her is in itself also a risk. She could die having her pups or have serious complications. When you see her late in her pregnancy full of pups and tired and uncomfortable you will feel guilty (I still do every single time!) and wonder if it was all worth it.

I firmly believe that if people are breeding they should be doing it for the best of reasons, and although in order to keep a pup is one of the better ones, that alone is not enough IMO. A litter of pups is a huge responsiblity, as well as a lot of work, both before the pups leave you and once they do.

I you really are serious about possibly wanting to breed from her, then taking her to ringcraft and starting showing is the best way to get started. It will give you a chance to meet other people in the breed, meet other Vislas, get to know more about the breed and most importantly get a fair assessment of whether Ruby is going to be good enough to breed from. Showing can be dauting at first, but if her breeder shows she will help you as much as she can, and it is something fun the children can join in with. They have young handler classes for children and they can help get Ruby ready to and come to ringcraft (like training classes for the show ring) with you. It also means if you do breed you will be able to show your pup once you already know the ropes, or that if you decide not to breed from Ruby that you will have good contacts from which you can buy a pup with the intention to show and possibly breed from later on. You can find details of your local ringcraft either from your breed club or local canine club.

I hope this doesn't seem too harsh and is of some help at least.

i got my dog spayed before she had the chance to have any pups

Hi, I'm a vet, and I echo a lot of what midori1999 said. Things to remember:

If you breed her, you are doing it for YOU, not her. Personally, other than getting my 3 lovely children, I would not say that being pregnant and giving birth was "good" for me!

If it is one pup you want, contact the person who bred her, and find out if any of her close relations are planning another litter. Even if you keep a pup from one of her litters, it will not necessarily have the same temperament as she does (again, check out my children- not little clones of me for sure!)

Also weigh up the risk of her needing a C-section. I have seen bitches die during/ after whelping, and also many deaths due to pyos and mammary tumours

IMO the only good reason to breed is because you have a real interest in the breed, are knowledgeable about both the breed and breeding and are actively seeking to enhance the breed. I briefly considered breeding from my own bitch years ago and decided that, even as a vet, I didn't have enough knowledge of the breed etc to do it justice, and that I would have real difficulty giving away pups to people less than 100% perfect (in my eyes!) Agree with midori too that most keen breeders are also involved in the show circuit, as they are enthusiastic about their breed.

Again, I know it sounds totally like I am trying to put you off, but I'm really just trying to give you some of the harsher facts. I see loads of pet breeders getting angry and upset because their bitch needed a C-section in the middle of the night, and it cost £1000 at the emergency vets, or whose bitches wouldn't accept the pups but who have a fit when I break the news that they will have to handfeed the pups every 2 hours- yes, even through the night. Or who get distressed about lost pups. it's not for the faint-hearted! Some people have it easy, but there's no guarantees, that's the thing. If you DO decide to breed, definitely speak to knowledgeable breeders within the Visla community first, and do your homework!

I think there are enough dogs in the world that need homes, please don't kid yourself you are doing this because it is nice for the dog, it is all about you wanting puppies running around. Personally, i think it sounds selfish and self-indulgent - do you dog a favour and get her spayed.

Dont do it.I bred my Chi girl as friends(strangers even) are always trying to buy her off me as she is so pretty and has a fab nature. I had confirmed homes too. But it was expensive, stressful and very hard work.She was a brilliant mum but she stopped being my dog , her fur got very thin and she got very out of condition for a while.We had her on a special diet and tablets.
If you have a wonderful type and lots of show certificates.If you have done all your research and can afford an excellent healthy stud and lots of support, it might be worth it.
But its a lot better to just really enjoy your pet without putting her through a pregnancy...i learnt my lesson well.

I have a friend who breeds her doberman every year, gets £800 for each puppy and is convinced she will make enough money like that to send her dd to private nursery if not school. She is trying to convince me to do the same - to buy a pedigree dog for the purpose - but I feel it can't be that easy.

Thanks everyone for your replies. DH and I have given your comments due consideration. We have decided that yes, we are being very "emotional" in our wish to let her be a mum.

So for now, the plan is go ahead with spaying before her first season and to look for another viz pup in 2 years time.

I think you have made the right decision, fwiw. Enjoy your girl for now, you sound very sensible and like you love your Ruby MacScooby very much!