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Original poster

oh wise training ones please help!

33 replies

morethanyoubargainfor · 01/03/2010 09:52

I would like to know any tips to help my lurcher (aka the stripey one!).

A bit of background had him 5 months from rescue, before that he was a stray. He is approx 18 months old now.

Since being with us he has learn't a heck of alot right from his name and he is in fact a briliant dog. Recently i have decided on working intensley on keeping him away from the boot room when we are getting ready for a walk, there were more important things to work on before. Here is my problem he is like a child with ADHD (which isn't a problem) and he LOVES his walks, in fact he lives for them. When we ar getting into our walking gear he used to jump around and bark quite a bit, we have now stopped this but we are triying to teach him to lay in his bed and wait for us to call him, (5 months ago we couldn't have got dressed without he jumping all over us).

The problem is he can do it if there are two of us here, so DH gets ready and i sit next to his bed and tell him stay whilst treating frequently (he one love more than a walk is food!) you can feel the anticipation and i know it is very hard for him to sit and wait.

If we are not going out for a walk i can put him in his bed and tell him to stay and walk around the house can go and stand outside of hhis view for 5 minutes and he doesn't move, ialso pick my coat up and walk around and he is the same doesn't move, and i also open the door and have a fake chat with someone and again he doesn't move. i constantly treat him for his good work.

So how do i teach him to wiat until i am ready and that he isn't going to be left behind? the door/boot room is too far from his bed to throw treats for him. So how do i do it?

hope that makes sense.

Sorry for long post but my fingars just can't stop! {grin].

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Original poster

morethanyoubargainfor · 01/03/2010 09:53

meant to say if i am here on my own or DH is he will not stay in his bed if we are getting ready to go out for a walk.

OP posts:

Bella32 · 01/03/2010 10:00

Off the top of my head and as I dash to tend to poorly dc etc I suspect you need to phase out the treats. They should only be used continuosly at the very start of a new exercise - as the dog gets the idea you phase them out until he's on an intermittent reward schedule (impressed ya there, didn't I? ) so that basically he never knows if he'll get a treat or not and works darn hard in case this one is The Big One. Also only treat the very best, fastest, most accurate responses.

And use treats to condition a clicker so you can use that instead.

HTH but of course you need The Guru

Romanarama · 01/03/2010 10:04

Can you just never put the lead on unless he is lying down in his bed? When he jumps up, hang the lead back on its peg and tell him to lie down again, and keep doing it until he stays lying down until the leads clipped on.

Then you could go further - even when the lead's on he's not allowed to get up until you say so. If he gets up before then you take the lead off and put it back on its peg.

Then he has to be sitting or you won't open the door and so on and so on. My pup gets this kind of thing really fast - he knows no one will open the crate unless he sitting in silence and so on.

But you have to be perfectly consistent so that he understands exactly what behaviour is required to get the walk. It should actually be easier if he's so bonkers about going for walks as he should try really hard to do whatever you want him to do in order to 'win' the walk.

Romanarama · 01/03/2010 10:07

If he loves the walk so much, then the walk can be the treat - maybe you could do the whole thing without the food.

Original poster

morethanyoubargainfor · 01/03/2010 10:08

thanks bella i am very impresed! but we are at the very start of this so continual treats are a nust . Have fun witht e poorly DC!

Rom, it's not putting his lead on thats the problem it is us putting on coats and shoes etc he is brilliant when he has his lead on, we call him from his bed and he instantly caomes and sits by the door and doens't move unitl i tell him to so thats not the issues, he runs around in a frenzy at the thought of going for a walk, he even does it if i am putting coat ont to pop to the shop, school run etc!

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Bella32 · 01/03/2010 11:03

I think one of the problems is that you haven't actually taught him a stay. You have taught him to lie in his bed while someone sits next to him and feeds him treats

Will he stay while you walk backwards away from him?

Original poster

morethanyoubargainfor · 01/03/2010 15:42

oh yes bella he stays and i can be out of site for up to 5 mins, i can walk around, open the front door, go in other rooms, sit on the couch and watch tv all of that without any treats. It is literally just whilst we are getting ready to go out, you can feel him shake with excitment and he finds it really difficult to stay where he is put as he is like a coiled spring!

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Bella32 · 01/03/2010 15:59

Yes, but actually stay - as in stay sat down in one position without moving at all? I don't mean to be really picky - am just trying to understand what he does

Original poster

morethanyoubargainfor · 01/03/2010 16:07

yes, in one position and he doesn't move a muscle!

The only way i can describe it he is like a child (although i know he isn't) that is so excited at the thought of something he just can't control himself IYKWIM. When i have put him in a down stay i can walk around with my coat in my hand but it seems like when i do the whole shabang, ski trousers, juacket and shoes it just sends him spiralling out of control!

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stleger · 01/03/2010 16:16

I have forgotten the name of the collie trainer I heard on the radio last year, he used to be a vicar? Anyway, he would suggest that even without saying a word, a dog will know you are getting ready for a walk. Maybe you brush your hair, lock the back door whatever. Our ddog knows that after breakfast he goes for a walk, and is very excited until about 5 minutes down the street. His other walks vary depending on who is taking him and the day of the week, so it is a surprise when someone gets his lead. (I have teenagers, so a selection of walkers, not always willing). Is there any way you can get ready and sneak his walk up on him?

Bella32 · 01/03/2010 16:18

lol - you know I'm only doing the groundwork for Minimu dontcha?

Perhaps - am asking Minimu here really - it could all be taught by chaining? Morethan - as you may well know - complicated sequences of events can be taught to dogs by breaking them down into individual components then linked together. So maybe he could be treated for sitting while you put your trousers on, then treated for sitting during trousers and boots, then for trousers, boots and jacket etc., etc.

Very interesting. Has got my little old brain ticking now. Am having a fecking crap day so it has given me something else to ponder. Will check back later to see what the Wise One says.

Thanks for putting up with my ramblings, Morethan

Bella32 · 01/03/2010 16:20

x post - it's true, stleger. If they go walkies at the same time each day or if the owner only gets fully togged up when it's walkies then that time of day or the act of togging up will set the dog off.

fruitshootsandheaves · 01/03/2010 16:28

If it was me I would make him lay down next to you while you put coat and shoes on first, before you try to do it at a distance and also do it at other times during the day to make him more reliable.

Once he can stay in the down next to you whilst you are putting coat and shoes on, then you can start to do it at a distance

(looks out the window at her mad collie running amok in garden, thinks she should do some training herself!)

stleger · 01/03/2010 16:42

My poor dog is curled up in a ball, looking sad. His last walk was to the vets for his booster jabs, and he was so pleased to be going out!

Original poster

morethanyoubargainfor · 01/03/2010 17:12

thanks everyone, And bella thanks for doing al the ground work for minimu i am sure she will appreciate it! He isn't walked the same time everyday so its not that, i believe the trigger is the clothing, chaining sounds good bella.

I have a dilemma about getting him in a down next to me because the boot room is cold hard tiles and he isn't keen on doing a down aware apart from his bed, its his breed he is very greyhound and very boney and not keen on sititng or laying anywhere apart from his bed or the sofa! I can't bring my stuff to him as they are used for around 4 hours a day as i am a dog walker who feels the cold! .

Bella i love your ramblings advice and i am pleased i have given you something to ponder on during your shit day i am always here to help!

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Original poster

morethanyoubargainfor · 01/03/2010 17:14

what i meant was the stuff is mainly mud so unless i want to spend the rest of my time hoovering up that won't work, also can't leave the mud as the other dog stays here whilst i am out walking due to injury and he will just trample it.

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MeMudmagnet · 01/03/2010 17:28

You could try putting down a doormat or something for him to sit on while you're getting ready. If he moves off the mat, stop getting ready, fold your arms and ignore him until he sits back down again.

Original poster

morethanyoubargainfor · 01/03/2010 17:31

I could try that, i think he would get that as well after a few tries of completely pushing the boundaries .

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bedlambeast · 02/03/2010 11:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster

morethanyoubargainfor · 02/03/2010 13:06

i can do bloody mindedness!

A bit of a break through today, he got very excited as usual but i tolds him to go in his bed and stay, no treats but i stood 3 paces away from him and just hand signalled and said stay which he did! my Dh got ready first then we swapped over but at no point did we have to hold him or touch him and his walk was his treat! maybe it is sinking in a bit .

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Joolyjoolyjoo · 02/03/2010 13:14

It sounds like you are doing well with him, but don't really understand why he isn't allowed to be excited about his walk? I quite like to see mine doing the twirly, exuberant, yay-we're-going-on-a-walk dance (Apart from the fact that my old boy has gone a bit senile recently, and now whines in a high-pitch the whole car journey!)

Original poster

morethanyoubargainfor · 02/03/2010 13:36

it not that he isn't allowed to be excited but he takes it to the extreme, he jumps, licks, nibbles, barks, whines,bounces of the walls, bites our clothing and constantly head butts us!

Not great behaviour when you are just about to go out especially with DS 7 he just knocks him over.

my other lad gets excited but it is manageable, he does the cute little paw dance that i don't mind.

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Joolyjoolyjoo · 02/03/2010 13:47

Ah, I see! If you think it is the routine, could you change it?

My dog used to have quite bad seperation anxiety when he was younger- started pacing and whining when he saw me putting my coat on, getting ready to go out, so I used to put my coat on etc then NOT go out (felt a bit of a pillock, but hey!) Or I would go out, then come back in after a few moments. Or I would go out with my coat in a bag and put it on outside- all to try to stop the association he seemed to be making.

Could you take him out to the car and then put your outdoor gear on?

Original poster

morethanyoubargainfor · 02/03/2010 17:55

we walk fron home as we have the best walks! i do go out without him but he just seems to know when it is his turn!

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MeMudmagnet · 03/03/2010 13:15

I know what you mean, our pup loves it when you bend down to put shoes on, you normally get a full on dog snog!

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