Autarky / CSJ dog food?

[MrsL123]

Currently both labs get half a tray of NatureDiet in the morning with 50g Wainwrights dry food mixed in. They usually only get a small bowl of dry food in the morning, but after the youngest had her operation a few weeks ago she went off her food, so I used the wet to tempt her back into eating (and older dog got the same). But now she's back to eating anything and everything, I'm hoping to stop the ND and give them dry food on it's own again (they'll still get their ND at night). Partially for their teeth, but mainly because I can't stand the smell of ND at 7am!

The Wainwrights usually costs me £30 for a 15kg bag, but it's on offer at the moment so only works out at £25 a bag. Before I go and stock up I thought I'd look into other options, and Berriewoods have got an offer on Autarky at the moment which works out at £15.99 per bag, so I was wondering what it's like? I'm sure I've heard people mention it on here but I can't seem to find anything to tell me what % of meat it contains (Wainwrights is 26%). Although their main meal is really the ND in the evening, I don't want to feed them poor quality stuff in the mornings (but I also don't want to keep buying WR if I can get an equally good food for half the price!).

A lot of people on the dog forums were also mentioning CSJ dog food which I've never heard of before. I've had a look at their site and it all sounds very good, and the food seems to be really cheap - they do various types ranging from £9 to £29 for a 15kg bag, but the ones people seem to be feeding most were the That'll Do at £10.95 a bag and the Herbie Rings at £13.40 a bag.

It sounds good and a google search brought up lots of people raving about it, but it just seems too cheap to me. Maybe I'm just a cynic?!

I have hear dof load so fpeopel using CSJ and Autarky and loving it, but on 'paper' the ingredients look shite to me, and I am not fond of anythign that doesn't list the percentage of meat. Plus, some of the foods have bread in them, and seem wheat heavy too. Some also contain a fair bit of mazie by the looks of it.

Skinners Duck and Rice is quite a good, less expensive food, but does have slightyl les meat than the Wainrights (22%, I think).

We are currently using Jollyes pet shop own brand as it contains 40% chicken, although it does contain a small amount of maize, rice is the other main ingredient and it doesn't have any junk in it. One ofmine is prone to skin problems iwth too much rice and does fine on this. It's £22 a sack, I think.

Thanks midori - we don't have a Jolleys near us as we're in Scotland, but there's one in my mum's town and she's coming up in 3 weeks, so I could always get her to pick me up a small bag to try and then stock up if they like it. The Autarky worried me as the first ingredient was maize, and even their own site doesn't list the percentages of everything, so I was a bit dubious. I haven't looked into the CJS properly, but I know it's aimed mainly at working dogs and there are a lot of high energy feeds on it - not what I need! There are a couple of premium ones that seem good, but they're £29 a bag, so I'd rather stick to the Wainwrights unless there's going to be a major saving.

I don't mind spending the money on decent food for them (they eat better than us!), but a few weeks ago I worked out that over the course of a year we spend an average of about £300 a month on the animals - DH is self employed and for the last year he's only been taking £400 a month in wages because business is so slow, so he's basically working just to feed the animals. And so far this year we've already spent hundreds in unexpected vets bills, hence the money saving exercise! They used to get Wainwrights trays which were 79p each, but now we've switched them to NatureDiet I can get it online for 62p each, so that's a decent saving over the course of the year. And if I buy a year's worth of the Wainwrights dry food now while it's on offer, that'll save us a fair bit too - between the two savings, it should cut their food bill down to about £50 a month - which is less than half of what we have been spending.

Obviously it would be even better if I could get a good dry food and still reduce the bills even further, but I'd rather eat beans all month than compromise on the quality of their food just to save a bit of money. Luckily DH feels the same

To be honest dry food is always a compromise. Orijen is the only one I would give to my dogs (but then I BARF feed so that would be a very rare occasion). Dogs do not need grain and it is only added as a filler to all dog food not as a dietary requirement. Even the ones boasting they have no additives and preservatives are stretching the truth as how else do 15kg bags of food stay fresh to be eaten!

Dried food is always a compromise so I guess it is just a balance as to how much a compromise you want to make it. I do know people who feed csj for convienence but most have reverted back to BARF.

It costs me 66p per day to feed my dogs on a BARF diet! A bit more for the cats.

Not everyone can feed BARF though. {sad} One of mine just can't tolerate bone and oddly, doesn't even really like things like chicken wings etc. she would often leave them when offered. Ground bone isn't an option over here as it woudl work out far too expensive, and although I'd certainly prefer Orijen over any other dried food, it would mean a considerable amount onto my monthly food bill that I just couldn't justify.

I completely see what you're saying, and agree with it, but raw feeding or BARF doesn't suit all dogs or owners.

I know BARF is by far the cheapest way to feed but unfortunately we don't have the fridge or freezer space, and there are no 'real' butchers left in the town to keep getting it fresh every few days. They all seem to get their meat pre-cut now - there are five of them on the same street, and none of them could supply me with some bones! I could understand if we lived in some urban jungle, but a small town surrounded by farmland and not one meaty bone in sight?! Morrison's butchers counter is sometimes good for stuff if we ask nicely, but it's a bit hit and miss, and again storage is an issue unless we went every couple of days which isn't really practical. Anyway, when we tried to feed them raw chicken wings a couple of weeks ago, they spat them out and refused to eat them, so I think I'd be fighting a losing battle. I don't think they understand the word 'budget'

They do seem to enjoy their dry food - the older dog will pick out all the biscuits to crunch and then eat the meat afterwards - so I don't mind giving it to them if it's good quality. It's just such a minefield trying to find one that's good enough and doesn't cost a fortune. Berriewoods do a 13.5kg bag of Orijen for £47 which would last about 6 weeks, so added to the trays of NatureDiet they get at night it would work out at about £66 a month to feed them. That's only £16 a month more than it would cost with the Wainwrights, which is a lot more reasonable than I thought it would be. But it's still a fair difference over the course of the year (about £200). Saying that, at least with Orijen I'd be paying mostly for meat instead of rice...

I find it ironic that as I type this, the puppy has just walked into the room eating a till receipt with a look of sheer joy on her face. Obviously I'm looking at this all wrong, I should just be feeding her the bag the food comes in!

I don't have personal experience of the effects of the cheaper CSJ, though I know a few people who feed That'll Do who are happy with it. I feed the Command Performance 18 for my 3 collies, which is 18% protein, as although they do agility and get a fair bit of exercise, they don't expend the energy of a working dog and on CP21 I've noticed the weight creep up a bit.

I know there wouldn't be much of a saving if you went to Command Performance, but, just to mention, if you have any concerns about your dogs'joints, I noticed a marked improvement with the stiff hips of one of mine when I switched. But then I guess that is probably the glucosamine contained within it, which you could always add as supplement.

I am totally happy with the CP18 and one of mine has a sensitive stomach and is prone to colitis. He now only has a rare episode usually related to stressful events like fireworks. If I had no choice but to change, though, then I would go for a cheaper product by CSJ.

I also mix a small amount of Nature's Menu in just to coat the dry food - the bowls are always gleaming.

Ohfuschia that's really helpful, thanks. My older one is also prone to colitis (stress related also) so we have to be really careful with what we feed her to avoid upsetting her stomach. So far the Wainwrights is about the only thing she's been able to eat constantly without any adverse affects, so for any new food I'll need to get some samples (which I see CSJ do) and try it slowly. The Wainwrights offer is only on for another few of weeks so that's why I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do now, so I've got time to try them properly if I decide to change.

Do you know what percentage of meat is in the CP18? I can't seem to find any breakdown of the ingredients on their site.

MrsL - you are a dog food tart Is there any brand you haven't tried?

lol at suggestions of BARF: if you can't stomach Naturediet at 7am then you won't be up for raw chicken, will you?

What about a wee bit of McSweens haggis?

But seriously - does JWB not work for you? It's good and works out fairly cheap.

Be careful when comparing foods that you know how much of each you need to feed. It isn't always possible to do a straight comparison on 15kg bags of 2 different brands.

Hope you find a solution anyway: I thought I was thorough, MrsL, but you take it to a whole new level.

Mmmmm haggis - boak

Lol @ dog food tart - I am! Of course the hunt is complicated by the - ahem - explosive reactions some of them receive from the older dog! I thought it was worth asking about the Autarky because it's so cheap, but I think I'm leaning towards sticking with the Wainwrights rather than upsetting their systems again with another change, especially if it'd only save me a small amount of money anyway. Funny though, we were in PAH today and their standard own brand stuff is 37% meat compared to their supposedly 'premier' Wainwrights having 26% - it was full of crap though, which WR isn't, and it was the same price, so I know which one I'd rather have.

Wet-food wise, they're quite happy with the NatureDiet now, they both spend as long licking their bowls afterwards as they do eating the stuff! So we're definitely sticking with that (thanks again for pointing me in the direction of Berriewoods, sooo much cheaper!). The only thing is, the older one's coat has gone a bit rough and they both seem to have developed dandruff - I'm hoping it's just a coincidence and it's not the ND (don't see how it can be really). They don't seem particularly itchy and their poos are brilliant, it's just the dandruff. I've just bought some tea tree oil shampoo so I'll bath them with that tonight and give them a good brush to get rid of all the flakes, and then keep an eye out to see if any more develops. Nothing is ever simple!

Meant to say, the JWB is OK but ingredients wise is pretty identical to WR (apart from the joint stuff, but they get that anyway from their tablets), and it's a bit more expensive (even online), so I've always just stuck with the WR.

I've been looking at the feeding allowances and splitting them in half (to allow for the ND in the evening) and then working out how long a bag would last based on that, to give me a monthly cost. I was suprised that the Orijen didn't work out much more expensive than the Wainwrights actually - I thought it'd be loads more but it only works out at about 25p each a day.

Financial services

lol

We don't normally bother about costs for the animals (just knew it was a lot!) but with things being a bit tight lately it's pushed me into action - wish I hadn't bothered though, it's such a minefield!

MrsL, just wondering where do you buy naturediet for that price? I get it sometimes and pay more than double that! It is good food though and handy if you can't get fresh stuff.

Did you used to work in Charlotte Square, MrsL ?

I'm a bit geeky about it all - I quite enjoy working out my daily costings

lol at you weeping behind your ND wall, Bedlam

Countrygirl the wonderful bella (creep creep)pointed me in the direction of Berriewoods who sell the packs of 18 really cheap. The more you buy, the less it costs - so the standard price is £13.74 per pack (76p each), but if you spend over £50 it's only £12.08 per pack (67p each) and if you spend over £100 you get it for £10.88 per pack (60p a pack).

It's £4.99 for delivery so you have to factor this in to the cost, but if you're buying in bulk it adds literally pennies to the cost of each tray.

OOOH, I've just looked and they've added a special offer today - 72 packs for £42.25 - that's less than 59p a pack!

Is that salmon & prawn, MrsL? I'm sure my 11 cases of fish and lamb were about £100 exactly, incl delivery. Or have the prices gone up?

You can mix and max with any of the flavours bella

I've just ordered 5 cases each of chicken, rabbit and lamb, and 2 cases each of the fish and salmon & prawn - so that's 6 months supply, and it came to £211.27

Also ordered a big 15kg breeder bag of Arden Grange cat food which will last me 5 months, for £36. Bargain!

They charged me £9.98 delivery but I think it's because there was so much - not looking forward to taking the delivery

I think you must have got a super duper special offer last time bella!

Thanks, MrsL - will look forward to seeing piccies of your ND wall in due course

I think prices must have gone up a bit - my own fault for recommending them so much No, seriously, still v good value and delivery is very good.

Bon appetit!

Considering we've been paying 83p per tray from PAH, I consider 59p to be the bargain of the century

The Arden Grange cat food was also a good price - we've been giving them the premium all natural pets at home stuff and 15kg works out at £57, so the AG is a lot cheaper and it's a better food.

Think I'll send DH to PAH tomorrow to stock up on the Wainwrights while I'm on a roll - and will enjoy peeking in the spare room every day knowing the animals are all fed for the next few months, even if DH and I end up eating pot noodles!

Thanks, I'll have a look at that, sounds good! That's cheaper than the tins of muck in the supermarket :p

MrsL - ingredients in CP18 for your consideration:

Whole white rice min 26%
Corn, Lamb meal min 14%
Beet pulp, Fishmeal, Whole Egg Powder, Whole Linseed, Chicken Oil, Herbs (Marshmallow, Peppermint, Fenugreek, Parsley, Rosemary)
Minerals
Vitamins
Chicory Extract
Yucca Extract
Chondroitin, Glucosamine & MSM

Protein 18% Oil 8% Fibre 3.5% Ash 7% Vit A 15,000iu/kg Vit D3 1,400iu/kg Vit E (as Alpha-Tocopherol) 90iu/kg Copper (as cupric sulphate) 15mg/kg

Put all that not because I understand it but in case you might. Also says on pack 'Premium Quality Meats' (I get that part). I've heard CSJ are very good at giving advice and samples. I've also used a salmon and potato one which is good, I just stick to the CP18 now though because they look so well on it.

Also at ND wall - might give it another go in the future, I used to use it but after they moved factory I had a couple of blown packs and it just didn't seem the same. Maybe it's back up to scratch now though.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has a bit of a warm glow when the dog food's stocked up. Mind you, when I come in with it and say to them 'Looks like we might be able to feed you for a bit longer' I'm met with withering looks which could be translated as 'Yeah, whatever, we all know which of us will end up on the basics range first' .