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Original poster

Please help me stop my puppy jumping up

53 replies

Romanarama · 03/02/2010 16:25

He's quite good - I think he has the idea that he's not meant to, as he'll usually sit to greet me and dh, he sits to be let out of the crate etc, he gets down when I say 'off".

But, he still jumps up all the time. DS3 has a massive scratch straight down his face and across his eye from this morning. And it's wet at the mo and the muddy paws are just everywere.

What I do now is make him sit for just about anything he might like (dinner, coming in, going out, treats, praise, whatever). I praise him loads when he stops jumping and sits down. Ignoring him when he jumps up is just impossible - the kids try bless them but he can pull them over, and the jumping is quite often accompanied by frenzied mouthing and clothes chewing which is quite hard to ignore.

What shall I do??

(4-month old goldie: info for those who are not bored of hearing about him yet )

OP posts:
salvolatile · 04/02/2010 13:14

Bella, for goodness sake! I'm not suggesting the OP 'knee' her dog in the chest! By bringing the knee up the dog can't land and drops back naturally. Reinforce with a falttened hand signal and quite soon the dog will respond to the hand signal alone The dog trainer I use for all my dogs trains and works the Met drug dogs and it is a method he uses all the time with bouncy young dogs, including mine

Bella32 · 04/02/2010 13:20

So your knee never makes contact with the dog? If that's the case why did you feel the need to say 'It won't hurt him?'

Original poster
Romanarama · 04/02/2010 14:09

I think I see what sal means. If he's trying to jump on you and you whip your knee up, then he just lands on your knee, can't prop his paws anywhere, and goes down again. I can see that working without actually slamming your knee into the dog's chest. A bit like spinning round with your back to him when he jumps - he misses his target.

OP posts:
Bella32 · 04/02/2010 14:18

The net effect's the same - whether you call it 'kneeing' or not: the only outcome is that the dog's chest hits your knee.

Apart from anything else a young dog expects rough physical contact when he's excited, so it will probably only make him more excited. Hence it's pointless, and IME turning away is 100 times more effective

midori1999 · 04/02/2010 14:51

I have to agree wirh Bella in that a pupy is highly likely to think any sort of leg moving is play. The same happens when peopel try to pin them down or scruff them (both appalling behaviour, btw) they think it's an exciting game and it makes the problem much worse.

I once had to visit one of my puppy buyers when puppy was 12 weeks old as she rang me in tears saying the pup was 'viscious'. It turned out the puppy had been play biting, totaly, totally normal behaviour, and the husband had tried pinning the puppy which had made things much worse as puppy thought it was a game and started to get really excited, growling and barking during the biting. Thank goodness pup had been feisty enough to get excited and not scared. (I do include an article on puppy biting in my puppy packs, but no-one ever reads the blasted thing!)

The ignoring will work quite quickly. I think you're already doing some of the NILIF stuff by making puppy sit for food etc, but it really does work.

salvolatile · 04/02/2010 15:08

Each to his own although Romanarama seems to understand. All I will say is I have four dogs of varying breeds,of naturally loving and bouncy dispositions, who are all whistle trained, live surrounded by sheep and other livestock and in a houseful of children and they have no behavioural problems. As for the loony man who tried to 'scruff' a 12 week old puppy, Midori, I hope you scruffed the idiot back.....

Original poster
Romanarama · 04/02/2010 18:13

I read my puppy pack! It was straight Cesar Milan (thank heaven for mn!)

Midori might I be able to have one of your puppy packs?

OP posts:
Bella32 · 04/02/2010 19:10

I read mine and file them neatly in each dog's individual file

midori1999 · 04/02/2010 20:13

I am glad some people read them. I am going to give them out before people collect their puppy from now on and hopefully they will then read more of them.

Romanarama, I am not sure how much use it will be to you at this stage, I can't remember off hand all that is in it and I am on DH's laptop stuck in the kitchen with the puppy (and the other dogs) at the moment. However, I think you can maybe email me through my profile if you like and I can email you what I have?

I am still gobsmacked for the number of people still brainwashed by Millan...

notjustapuppymum · 04/02/2010 21:10

Well the pet corrector spray worked for us and our dogs are not nervous or mentally scarred by it like the spaniel described here.

I think some posts need to be less judgemental because what works for one doesn't work for another. As I said, it's impossible to train visitors to your home, people who aren't used to dogs just don't know what to do and find it impossible to ignore a jumping up dog.

Romanarama re your question about how long the 'puppy' stage last with goldies, it's 3 years for males retrievers. Mine are both just over 2 now though and have calmed down loads and haven't (touch wood) chewed anything since they were about 9 months old (apart from their toys obv).

midori1999 · 04/02/2010 21:40

You have been lucky. Any methods which involve an unpleasant stimulus are not safe to advise people to use over the internet, not just becaus eof the example Minimu gave, but because they can have other side effcts. The dog could have just as easily associatd the sound with th eowner and bitten. It is in excusable and I would go so far as to say cruel, to use such methods on a puppy. The fact you still have to occasionally use it shows it hasn't worked.

As for Goldens growing up at three, good luck with that... they never grow up...

Bella32 · 04/02/2010 22:00

Judgemental? Last time I looked there were some highly qualified and experienced people on here giving out advice for free.

IMO that isn't judgemental, that's generous

Original poster
Romanarama · 04/02/2010 22:06

I do think it's generous. In fact I'm not completely sure what I'd do without you lot.

OP posts:
overthemill · 05/02/2010 09:27

my sister breeds goldens and has lots herself. She has changed to clicker training for her own dogs anddvises this for her puppies. As it rewards good behaviour and works on basis dog psych/behaviourism she, and i who introduced her to it think its great. Other methods work but this is one that kids can use easily too. Definitely turn your back, arms crossed. They are keen to please you! Good luck, bouncy goldens are such fun!

Original poster
Romanarama · 05/02/2010 12:22

Thanks! I like the clicker, but I don't let the kids use it yet as their timing's way out! I try not to rely on the clicker though, as I just don't always have it in my hand at the required moment.

OP posts:
notjustapuppymum · 05/02/2010 13:52

I don't think it's cruel. All it is is a noise they don't like the sound of that they then associate with the action they were doing at the time they heard it.

They don't like the sound of the hoover either but I don't not hoover in case it upsets them!

The problem with all the usual advice, we found, was that having two made most of the advice pretty useless. Maybe that was our mistake getting two the same age, but to try and be consistent with training them with a clicker or ignoring them etc. was really hard because one might be doing one thing and the other something different. For example telling people to ignore them and turn their back on them if they jumped up was fine but then when they turned around they'd often be faced with the other one if you see what I mean?!!

The noise of the pet corrector was the only thing that worked for us anyway and as this is a forum where people ask what worked for others I posted it...I wasn't 'advising people over the internet' to use it, I was just saying that it worked for us. I didn't ask to be judged as an owner for doing so.

overthemill · 05/02/2010 16:20

it has to be what works for you. i have found clicker works for us with this dog but with our previous dog (same breed!) we used a different method but including the turning round thing always works for us - with two it wouldn't i guess. our trainer suggested we get another dog when this one is around 18 months old at least.
good luck!

Bella32 · 05/02/2010 17:19

I don't think anyone judged you, NJAPM. Can I suggest that perhaps you are taking this a little too personally? I know you have posted on here about your own problems with your dogs and maybe you feel sensitive as a result?

If you are going to recommend a method which has documented problems associated with it, and people point those problems out, that doesn't equate to you being judged.

The problem is not that the dogs become scared of the noise itself, but that they associate it with something entirely unrelated, and so they get stressed when that unrealted event occurs.

As Romanarama was asking for advice I felt obliged to point out to her the problems of using a pet corrector - in order to help her, not to judge you.

notjustapuppymum · 05/02/2010 18:05

Bella maybe you're right and I am a little sensitive. I have no qualms with anyone pointing out the downside to my method but I do object to someone saying it's cruel - that's a judgement.

BTW - my problem has resolved itself (touch wood). I didn't realise how stressful a new baby in the house would be for dogs, I looked into it loads more after talking to you and others on here. I got them a DAP diffuser and we have been giving them lots more attention and letting them upstairs so that they can be with us and the baby more and they seem a lot happier and haven't done the deed in the house for over a fortnight now!

Bella32 · 05/02/2010 18:50

That's brill news, NJAPM. I can remember only too well the stress and guilt which bringing a new baby into the house with existing dogs can create, so I am really pleased that things are going well for you. Am sure you know that your dogs will not feel 'pushed out' by the baby, but of course they do pick up on the slightest change in our emotions. Which is one of the reasons we love them so much! Am very pleased for you

notjustapuppymum · 05/02/2010 19:31

Thanks Bella. You're right, that is why we love our dogs so much because they are so complex and have a consciousness far higher than most people give them credit for.

Ever since I've had them people have been saying to me "they're just dogs" and someone said to me when I was pregnant that once I had the baby I would realise that they were only dogs and put my relationship with them into perspective...but it just hasn't happened...if anything I love them even more because despite their anxiety they have shown nothing but kindness to the baby.

Sorry for hijacking this thread everyone!

Bella32 · 05/02/2010 19:58

It's okay - Romanarama has hijacked enough threads in her day

midori1999 · 05/02/2010 21:03

It was me who said it was cruel, to use it on a puppy. That is my opinion and I won't apologise for it, but it was never a judgement of you personally, but the method. It wasn't intended to cause offence. (However, I can be quit epointed in what I say, so if it did offend you I apologise for that)

I am also glad the problem with your dogs has been solved.

Original poster
Romanarama · 06/02/2010 08:12

Hijack?

I have important ishoos to resolve, doncha know?

How're you supposed to know what's good and bad if you're on your first dog? There's so much stuff on the market, and apparently qualified and experienced people (Cesar M for ex) who tell you to do things that others say are cruel. Some are obvious - an electric shock collar is imvho clearly unlikely to lead to a content pooch, but others not so. 'Tis very hard for us doggy-loving novices.

OP posts:
Original poster
Romanarama · 06/02/2010 11:55

OK, so I went to golden retriever training today, and the breeder of my pup was also there. I asked her and the trainer what to do about jumping up, and they said: "knee him in the chest"! And the woman next to me said "won't that hurt the poor thing?", and the breeder said "too bad. He has to learn". (The trainer did add to straight away get him to sit and make a fuss of him for being good, btw)

I said that my 3yo couldn't knee him in the chest (I expect he could get the gonads though, now I think about it ), and he said to tell him to stand still with his arms in the air, but not turn around. I pointed out the scratched-face drama in our house, but he didn't have an answer for that.

It's a bit odd, because apart from all that the class is lovely, and it's all about building a really good relationship with your dog and having him watch you all the time, and want to come to you and please you. And my puppy just loves it.

So my point is really just to illustrate my point about how hard it all is. I read "Bones would rain from the sky" and apart from thinking that she would have been well-served by a much better editor, I thought that was a pretty good starting point and would recommend it. Disclaimer: it's a bit waffly and repetitive, but the message is good.

OP posts:
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