Annual booster jabs for dogs. How overdue before you hve to start from scratch?

[docmartin]

Just pondering this as last year one of my dogs went 6 weeks over and the vet said i should start all over again. Is this right. Surely a couple of months would be ok?

Our vets would not say you needed to start again at 6 weeks over. THat is being a little over zealous I would say. Our Vets usually say leeway of about 2-3 months

thanks purple. I did wonder if it was a little squeeze to get a bit more money. I do wish they wouldn't do this, because it makes you loathe to go to the vets if you feel you are going to come away with more costs than you expected.

And I was bang on time this year for fear of hearing all that bull again !

You don't need to start the course again, and vaccine manufacturers are now telling vets that. We massively over-vaccinate our pets anyway, but some vets are still way behind the times...

If my vet wanted me to start the course, I'd change vets...

That's interesting midori. I can quite believe it.

Depends on the brand of vaccine used. Some are only authorised for a single year's immunity, some for 2 or 3 years. And it also depends on the components.

Lepto usually needs to be done every year, but 6 weeks overdue would be fine. Other components are mostly every 2 years now.

Therefore, the vet may not be behind the times, just wants you to bring the dog in for the required components, depending on what it had last year.

Yes, but just because vaccine companies might tell us we need to vaccinate every year (and I appreciate vets have to stick to what drugs are licenced for due to litagation) it doesn't mean our dog needs vaccinating every year.

The lepto vaccination is particularly contraversial since it protects against strains which are found mainly in the USA and not the UK as well as only protecting against a handful of the 50+ strains found in the UK. (Haven't checked for a while, but at the last count it was two)

I titre test my dogs each year instead of vaccinating, and not supringly to me, all three are still immune after nothing but their puppy vaccs and the oldest is currently is 4 1/2. Plenty of my friends do the same though and have 8-10 year old dogs that are stil immune after only their puppy vaccs too. Just goes to show...

I don't know if it the same for dogs as it is for cats. My vet has told me that as long as my cat doesn't go more than three months overdue then no need to restart. I take him for his jabs every 15 months now.

Not everyone can afford to titre test. Just because a dog has a positive titre, it doesn't mean it is vaccine mediated.

In order to get a marketing authorisation for a vaccine, the manufacturer has to demonstrate efficacy against the prevalent field strains in the country where the vaccine is to be authorised. The principle strains of Lepto affecting dogs in the UK are canicola and icterohaemorrhagica. This is what you'll find in the UK authorised vaccines.

The studies to get extended duration of immunity claims for vaccines basically mean the dogs in study having to be kept in complete isolation for as long as you want the product to be authorised for, so that there is no risk of natural infection and you can be sure that it was the vaccine that created the immunity. Manufacturers aren't keen to do this on ethical grounds.

what is the titre test. never heard of that. Thanks.

A titre test (testing a blood sample to check the dog's immnunity) is likely to cost near enough what you'd pay for an annual booster.

Important also to remember that you get a free health check when you take your dog for a booster, and many many health problems are picked up that way.

Oh - and vets don't set out to rip people off!

It costs me more to titre test than it would to booster, (around £60 per dog) and obviously in the event that my dog isn't immune, I would then have to decide whether to booster and if I did that cost would obviously be on top. That is fine, because I am not interested in money, only what I feel is best for my pets.

At the end of the day, vets are a business. Vaccine manifacturers are also businesses.

I would be interested in how many actual confirmed cases of lepto there are in dogs every year if ayone has any figures. My previous vet reckoned he saw about one every two years, if that.

midori - i would not bother with the vaccinations if mine did not go to the kennels once a year. Unfortunately it is a stipulation, otherwise no.

I only think of my dogs' health, which is why I vaccinate them each year.

Oh yes, there's plenty of mumbo jumbo theories about vaccinations being harmful, but afaik no hard evidence whatsoever. Lots of breeders who think they are really knowledgeable hunker togather and think they have finally uncovered the huge conspiracy that is the pet vaccine industry

Never saw a dog die (or even ill) as result of vaccination when I was a vet nurse.

Saw far too many die as a result of being unvaccinated - horrific.

I'm a responsible, caring owner - so I vaccinate. And I don't go spreading hearsay either

Vets make money? Really? Well feck me! My GP makes money too - does that mean he's over vaccinating me?! Must be....

I have known personally of a dog die after a vaccine. It went in perfectly healthy, the vet checked it over, listened to it's heart etc, all the routine health check they do prior to a vaccination, dog was in perfect health. It collapsed in the waiting room and never left the vets. Now, maybe it wasn't the vaccine, but a PM ruled out any obvious cause and odd that thet vet had said the dog was in 'rude health' prior to vaccinating.

Vaccine manufacturers have compensated owners and settled out of court where vaccines have been the suspected cause of death. Why would they do this if they felt the vaccines weren't the cause? Goodness of their hearts maybe?!

The fact is, there IS a risk with vaccination. I doubt any vet would tell a person otherwise. That risk may be small, or even very small, but whilst it is there and there is an alternative, I'll take it thanks.

I have seen VACCINATED dogs die of parvo. Why, because not all dog that are vaccinated become immune (about 5% actually) hence when we vaccinate for rabies we have to titre to make sure the dog has become immune.

The dogs you saw may not have been vaccinated, but they didn't die as a result of that did they? They died as a result of not being IMMUNE, and that is the key here. Immunity.

Golly - one dog where the PM couldn't identify vaccination as the cause of death - hence you don't vaccinate? Glad to hear you base your decision on such a statistically significant result. Impressive.

I do know how rabies vaccines are tested and titred - thank you Midori. Nobody enjoys being patronised.

But it's okay - go on spreading your unsubstantiated theories - with any luck you'll dissuade some people from vaccinating their dogs and more will die.

That's what is heartbreaking to see in practice - deaths that are completely avoidable. If you lose your battle to keep an animal alive that is bad enough, but losing it where a simple injection would have prevented the death, that is really hard.

It becomes very difficult not to resent owners who think, in their arrogance, that they know more than the vet and conform to rumours rather than science. IMO it's negligence on the owner's part if they do not vaccinate.

So I'll leave you to it. Would appreciate it if you stopped SHOUTING but that's okay.

For anyone wanting to read about what can happen when a vaccination goes wrong, there is some info here:

www.spangler.co.uk/vaccines.htm

Of course, nothing is clinically proven, but notice that Virbac, the manufacturer involved paid all of Spanglers vets fees and have said themselves in a letter to his owner that "in an ideal world all dogs would have a blood test each year to establish whether a booster was necessary". and Spanglers own vets have changed their policy on vaccinations since his death

I have personally found more and more vets are open to titre testing, especially in very recent years.

Bella, you're very good at picking and chosing what you want to read/hear/reply to.

Not all dogs that are vaccinatd become immune. I wonder how many vets tell their clients that?! Or that there is a risk of an adverse reaction, no matter how small that risk is. How many vets tell their cliens there is an alternative, which is to titre test and then decide whether to vaccinate? The vaccine manufacturers themselves have said this is the ideal situtation.

I have never suggested anyone doesn't vaccinate their dogs. Neither vaccinating nor titre testing would indeed be irresponsible. What I have done is point out tthat there is an alternative.

My dogs are not vaccinated, but they are immune. How does that make me less responsible than someone who vaccinates?

Bella, you're very good at picking and chosing what you want to read/hear/reply to.

I really don't think you could insult me much further, Midori. I'm sorry you do not like the fact that I disagree with you, but there is no need to make a personal attack on me like that.

Oh, come on, I made an observation, gave my opinion based on it. I don't see how on earth that is a personal attack?! Sorry you are feeling so sensitive, but it was not meant as any sort of attack or insult at all. Of course, you haven't inadvertantly been insulting to me, have you?!

I couldn't care less if you disagree with me. What on earth makes you think I would care enough not to like it? I do what I think is best for my pets, which is an informed decision and nothing whatsoever to do with 'Lots of breeders who think they are really knowledgeable hunker togather and think they have finally uncovered the huge conspiracy that is the pet vaccine industry'

I'm not feeling 'so sensitive' (although thanks for that assumption ) - I just think it is a little below the belt to say that I only respond to the items that suit me.

How many people on here respond in full to every point everybody makes? I for one don't have the time.

My argument is that basing a belief that vaccines are risky on one dog with an unproven PM result is not an informed decision.

And you should know as well as I do that many owners will not pay the higher cost of a titre test, but will assume that their dogs are immune like yours.

Anyway, I'm sorry but I really don't have any more time to spend arguing with you.

"And you should know as well as I do that many owners will not pay the higher cost of a titre test, but will assume that their dogs are immune like yours."

And that is precisely why vets don't always recommend it. Maybe if they reduced their charges it would help? I have been quoted £200 per dog for a titre test by one vet, which, IMO, is absolutely ridiculous.

In general, peole who take their vets for routine things like vaccination sare the responsible pet owners. I personally think they should be given the choice.

I apologise if I have offended you, it was geniuinely not my intention. You clearly have a different view to m, and that is fine and I respect that. However, just as your view is based on your own experience, so is mine and so just liek you are unlikely to change yours, the same applies here.

I sincerely hope I never gave the impression that my views were based on one PM report though, as they are not. And once again, most (if not all) vets would agree that vaccination caries a risk, albeit a small one. Obviously that is not as great as the risk of not vaccinating, but like I said, where there's an alternative, I'll take it thanks, regardless of cost.

My view is not based on my own experience, Midori, it is based on clinical trials and hard scientific evidence.

Sorry if I haven't answered all your points - I can assure you it owes nothing to my 'picking and choosing' - I merely have to get on now and feed my family.