Epupz - any experience anyone?

[RatherBeOnThePiste]

We are moving towards being dog owners as in we really would like to have a westie, but need to get the timing right etc.

Does anyone have experience of this site as a means of finding breeders etc? We know of one family where it has been a success story, but it is such a big thing to do, we want to get it right.

Will try to do a linky

here

It hasn't got the best reputation, tbh. Lots of puppy farmers (who are becoming increasingly clever at hiding the fact) on there and not many responsible breeders.

The bst place to look is the breed club, or second to that the KC site, but do be aware that puppy farmers also KC register, so you need to check out the breeder thoroughly and question them.

Thank you. Much appreciated. It is difficult to k ow how to do this without getting it wrong.

the kc site has good info on how to tell a good breeder and how to spot a bad one. look at that first and teh whenever/wherever you hear about a breeder/litter start your enquries - you can rule some of them out by phone. some not until you visit (and they make excuses as to why you cn't see where they live...why you can't see the mother etc) - read the kc stuff very carefully and follow it to the letter.

I helped someone purchase a westie not long ago. I found the breed club spoke with the puppy co ordinator who gave us numbers of recent litters born/due ect. Stay away from epupz and site like that full of byb and puppy farmers.

I think it's a bit of a generalisation to say that epupz and the like are full of byb and puppy farmers!

We got our two dogs from a breeder on epupz, they kc registered pedigree dogs and we had no problems whatsoever.

I think if you still use the guidelines it's ok to find breeders on epupz.

agree - the only way of telling a good breeder is by using the guidelines to look at them individually. the original source of the breeder's name is not really a key bit of info - whether it's epupz or the kc website. either way you have to assess them yourself.

notjustapuppymum, puppy farmers and BYB's KC register too.

The simple fact is that you only have to scroll through the ads when you know what to look for and they don't scream out 'responsible, ethical breeder'. That isn't to say there are no good breeders on there, but they really are few and far between and the best place to look really is the breed clubs. You wo't have ot sift out the bad breeders, although health tests etc should still be checked, but the breed clubs won't suggest anyone who isn't ethical and they will know of all the unscrupulous breeders in the area.

Even using guidelines, it is very hard for the average person to identify puppy farmers, the more te public become aware of, the cleverer they get.

I know of a couple of reputable breeders who deliberately advertise on epupz purely to try to show up the difference between a properly health-checked, well-reared puppies and the puppy-farmed litters - but, by and large, it's to be avoided. Even if you go and see a litter that's been puppy-farmed, or, worse, shipped in from the sheds in Ireland, the puppy farmers rely on people feeling (naturally) so sorry for the dogs that they can't walk away. As midori says, even a KC registration isn't a cast-iron guarantee. The breed club will steer you towards the right places.

( - Westies are adorable!)

There is a scheme called the accredited Breeder scheme where breeders have to visited and approved to be registered. They have to keep detailed records of the pups they breed and sell. Accredited breeders may then advertise their puppies on the kennel clubs website.
With Westies you need to ask about skin problems and Legg Perthes disease these are the two biggest problems in the breed and can potentially cost thousands in a dog's lifetime. As a vet if you are thinking of a westie it's worth considering border terriers too they have less health problems and more reliable temperament.
If you do choose a westie I would strongly advise insurance for this breed.

Being KC registered does not a good breeder make - I know of breeders who will breed a bitch twice but register once so they get double pups from a bitch but give the impression of being above board, doing this with enough dogs increase profits and means there are always KC reg pups available to the people who come looking for a reputable breeder and plenty for those who are not so bothered. It is not the fact they are registerd that is important, there are many other things to look out for.

Sadly, the Accredite dBreeder Scheme is a waste of time. There are puppy farmers on that too! Not nearly enough checks are carrie dout, and health testing is recommended, not compulsory, also distinctly lacking. For my breed (Golden Retrievers) they recommend hip scoring and eye testing, but elbow scoring should also be done.

I feel utterly compelled to comment here!!! This site has been ruined by puppy farmers and non ethical breeders who PRIDE themselves on selling KC registered puppies!!!!! One breeder in Particular Based in Lancashire Amanda Collins, has sold puppies to so many people that I know, that have had problems, she says they come with injections, and they don't their paperwork NEVER checks out, and some pups have died within a week or 2 months of people buying from her, she makes me sick! My friend bought a puppy off her, and the poor little thing died a horrible death within 48 hours from Parvo, her 2 children and hhusband were distraught.Upon contacting Mrs Amanda Collins, she was unavailable for comment and said it was poor housekeeping on her part that the puppy had died, and no a refund was not possible. RIDICULOUS! As her house is spotless, and that puppy was from a puppy farmed environment, and already had Parvo and was knowingly sold, as in knowing the puppy was not fit for sale!!!! The other pups from the litter all died the same horrible death! A coincidence I think not, the dog breeding world is a small place, especially in Lancashire, as my friend and her sister both bought pups from same litter, upon seeing how 'cute' the puppies were 2 other acquaintances also TRUSTED and bought pups from the same litter!!! The fact they all died same horrible Parvo death and they all paid £500 for a 'KC Registered' puppy is just wrong! Being KC registered does not a good breeder make - I know of breeders who will breed a bitch twice but register once so they get double pups from a bitch but give the impression of being above board, doing this with enough dogs increase profits and means there are always KC reg pups available to the people who come looking for a reputable breeder and plenty for those who are not so bothered. It is not the fact they are registerd that is important, there are many other things to look out for.
Avoid Epupz, and Avoid Amanda Collins In Lancashire, in fact just avoid the site, I have other horror stories, but I do not have the time to post! I am expecting my second child, and have 2 lovely dogs, who I bought off a friend, they are pedigree, but not KC registered! I seen the parents, and I know my friend is not a large scale puppy farmer with no morals, so I was happy to buy when her bitch had a second litter, the dogs are so good with my little boy, and a very much valued part of our little family! If you do go on Epupz, go for a hobby breeder, in a home environment! My friend went onto buy from a lovely girl in Lancashire, who gave her amazing follow up service and was honest and genuine from the get go! IF MY POST SAVES SOMEONE ELSE BUYING A 'KC REGISTERED PUPPY' FROM AMANDA COLLINS BASED IN LANCASHIRE, THEN IT'S BEEN WORTH TAKING THE TIME TO POST ON HERE!

As a campaigner and rescuer I second everything that midori says - she is a responsible, knowledgable breeder herself and although I would never encourage buying from a breeder when there are so many pups and dogs in rescue waiting for homes and, worse still, being killed for lack of them, respect and support midori's remarks.

Campaigners have lists and lists of puppy farmers who advertise through epupz - I suggest that you contact Mo, who runs A Dogs Life campaign organisation or Puppy Love campaigners if you are in any doubt of what I, midori and Taz have said.

I see the results of these bastards coming into rescue regularly... I have tales to make your heart bleed. It's not just puppy farmers but backyard breeders who are a massive problem - the idiots who will breed from their bitch with the dog down the road or with their own dog to make a fast buck/because the bitch is pretty/so the kids can see puppies being born with no idea of genetics and no health checks or welfare standards. These poor dogs often end up in rescue, ill, with temperement problems and unwanted.

Taz, my heart goes out to you, I'm so sorry you had to learn the hard way.