Help with housetraining (of the poo variety!)

[DaisymooSteiner]

So we've had our 9.5 week old puppy a week now. We started off with the best of intentions re housetraining and were taking him outside at frequent intervals. The trouble is that he's black and in the dark it's just about impossible to tell whether he's actually done anything or not! So after a day or two of standing in the freezing cold, we decided we'd start off by paper training him and move onto outside training when we've got a better idea of his normal toileting routine and hopefully the weather is a bit better!

We've had quite a bit of success with wees and he goes in the right place at least 50% of the time, then he gets a treat, praise etc. The problem is the poos. He has never done this in the right place - it's always under the table or by the fireplace. I disinfect the area each time so he can't smell it, but it doesn't seem to do any difference. I've only ever actually seen him do it once because he honestly seems to wait until you turn your back for a second! The one time I did catch him, I grabbed him and plonked him on the paper but he didn't do any more.

He's never been scolded by the way. We just clear it up without comment.

Anyone got any suggestions? I know he's only little still and I'm happy to be patient, I just want to know if we can do anything else to encourage him.

He has a crate btw and I tend to pop him in it if I have to leave the room for more than a few minutes.

TIA.

Get a torch and take him outside!

Paper training often causes confusion for the pup - once they get the hang of doing it on paper, they then have to unlearn that and learn to go outside.

Take him and the torch outside every hour, after sleep, after food and after play. Praise to the end of the earth (no matter how foolish you feel!) when you spot him doing something out there and ignore any accidents inside.

Using a weak solution of biological washing powder will take away the scent that'll be left behind under the table and by the fireplace.

It shouldn't take long for him to get the hang of it, but like a toddler, it'll be a while before it's perfect. Wees and poos seem to sneak up on puppies too.

Good luck - and keep a coat, gloves and treat bag by the door .

I'm with daisydotandgertie excellentn advice. Do take the pup outside torch if you need to. It will be easier in the long run.

We did take a torch! It would probably be easier now that we know his body language when he needs to do a wee, but what I do find a problem is getting shoes and coat on in time when he looks like he needs to go - by the time I've done that, it's often too late!

Agree with daisydot and minimu - leave coat and shoes by back door if need be. I wear crocs at home so I can run outside quickly.

Ditto, ditto, ditto - we have a treat pot by the door, so we can grab a poo bag and a treat at the same time. I've had to up the stakes to slivers of hotdog for poos; he's pretty much grasped alfresco weeing, but pooing outdoors needs more of an incentive.

Don't use disinfectant, btw - apparently the ammonia (?) in it smells like wee to the puppy, and makes it think it's OK to go there.

I have put up a hook on the back door for my coat, and some biccies in the pocket. Crocs here too. Luckily the pup is white so he's pretty easy to recognise in poo posture!! I can never find the poo until the next day though, it just blends in with the dead leaves in the dark!

OK, so we're nearly 2 weeks on from me starting this thread and we have wees outside about 80-90% of the time, which is great, but we still haven't had a single poo outside. In fact I've only ever caught him in the act two or three times, the rest of the time he sneaks off where we can't see him to do it - he's a small dog, so just going under a chair or behind the table means that we can't see him! As I said before, we've never scolded him and the times we have caught him, we've shipped him straight into the garden. He then just holds it and does the rest a while later!

Pooing under the table was a particular favourite which we've stopped by moving his crate underneath it, but now he just goes elsewhere.

He's a smart dog and we've got the weeing thing sorted pretty quickly, I just need some encouragement that the poos will get sorted too and any practical suggestions for ways to encourage him to go outside!!

It will get better I promise!

Has he had all his injections yet? And does he tend to poo at the same sort of time each day?

When mine were small, they always needed a poo when they first woke up and then about half an hour after food.

I got into the habit of taking them for a short walk when I knew there was a poo likely. A walk gets the workings underway and forces things through. Then lots of praise and ridiculous excitement.

I feel it's mostly trial and error with a new dog though; until you get to understand them. And of course, until the dog grows enough to gain full control of it's workings!

If it helps at all, one of my girls was really hard to house train - she was v, v happy to poo in her bed, in a crate and then wail about it. And it went on for a while. Then it just clicked, at about 16 weeks. And now she clearly tells me if she's desperate by standing on my lap .

Yes, it will get sorted but tbh it's been made harder because you weren't always raking him outside to begin with. Look at it from his point of view: doing a poo anywhere except his bed is normal to him and he's been able to do it frequently around the house so he considers it normal to poo in the house. Your job is to show him how much more rewarding it will be for him if he poos outside.
A few practical pointers- keep a diary of when he poos (inside or out) - pups can usually be relied upon to poo within an hour of a meal, so straight out after feeding and if no poo, then out every 10 mins after until he does poo, and supervise him constantly during his time indoors until he poos.
Make sure you allow him ample time outside, and also that he's not whipped back indoors straight after performing - they can quickly learn that the fun of being outdoors will end as soon as they poo.
Finally, make sure you are praising and treating like mad when he poos/wees outside.
Vigilance is the key - if you do 't supervise him he won't get it.
Good luck.

Thanks guys. I think keeping a diary of when he poos might help. Yes, he's had all his vaccinations and has been out for walks for about 10 days, although I haven't noticed him pooing shortly after walks tbh.

I do appreciate that supervising him is important, but we don't get as much warning body language as we do with wees - he will literally just do it quick as a flash and by the time you've got across the room it's done and too late! And as I said, he does tend to go off and hide somewhere it's difficult to spot him. Between my husband and me there is somebody with him all the time unless he's in his crate and without literally following him round 24 hours a day I don't think we could do much more - I've managed to potty train 4 kids without much hassle and this is far more tricky

Yes - it's hard but he's still very young and you can't expect to have him nearly housetrained before at least 4 months, and even then he'll still have accidents.
Keep going - even if you get him outside mid-poo it will help him get the idea. Could you restrict him to the kitchen for at least some if the day?
Chin up - you'll get there

He's restricted to the kitchen for the whole day apart from when we take him for a walk and in the evening when he's tired and flops out in the sitting room with us.

I don't expect him to be housetrained any time soon, I know it's a matter of time, patience and persistance but I would just like to think that we're at least getting somewhere and with a 0% success rate after 3 weeks it's a bit discouraging. I know he poos fairly early on in the day so will try the 10 minute thing tomorrow morning.

You're a 'glass half empty' person, aren't you ?

You're not having 0% success - he's 11 weeks old and he wees outside. He has been allowed to poo indoors and has to unlearn that. It is 100% down to you now - the more vigilant and consistent you can be, the quicker he'll learn. Every poo that he does indoors is reinforcing his idea that indoors is the 'right' place to poo.
Keep going and don't be so negative - I guarantee that if you give it your all you'll see a marked improvement by this time next week.

The reason most dogs hide to poo is that they have a some time got the impression that they get told off for pooing. As the puppy now seems totally confused I would have him on a house line indoors so he is not able just to run off and hide and poo. If the house line is attached to you if the puppy is out of his crate then you will know where he is at all times. You do need to be taking him out every hour (although with your present situation I would be doing it every half hour)

It is true that puppies aren;t housetrained in that they can not control their bodily functions for long but a 12 week old puppy is usually in a routine and should be aware of where to toilet.

Don't mean to sound harsh but you if you give this 100% commitment over the next few days you can sort this out once and for all.

I guess you could try keeping him on the lead indoors and out for a day or two? Then you can stopping him sneaking off for a stealth poo and spot the circling etc that suggests he's about to go. Easier said than done I know... but I've found that my puppy is quite quick to learn a new concept as long as treats ate involved - you just need a way to get him to poo outside so you can reward it!

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Well, by taking him outside exactly an hour after eating for a poo and then every 15 minutes until he goes, we've been able to get three poos outside, 1 inside when I was literally about 30 seconds late in taking him out after the 1 hour was up, and a 'stealth' poo which seemed unrelated to anything - hours since he'd eaten and only about 20 minutes since his last poo outside

Just to reiterate that we have never chastised him for pooing inside, although whether it happened at the breeders' is impossible to say.

Thanks everyone - now we've actually managed to get him to poo outside and can reward him for it I'm sure he'll get the hang of it quickly.

Fabby dabby doo

I did say they'll usually poo within an hour of eating, so try to take him out before that hour has elapsed, but sounds like you are up & running now

Well done!

Well done fantastic!