Daughter v keen on tropical fish -- what pitfalls should we avoid?

[Lancelottie]

Title says it all, really! My eight-yr-old DD is very keen on the idea of keeping small tropical fish. I am a complete fish novice apart from the obligatory childhood goldfish. I've had a look on the ThinkFIsh website and am now somewhat daunted, but she's still enthusiastic.

Should I be steering her away from tetchy delicate tropical fish towards something more robust? If not, what's a good starter tank? (We don't have endless space -- or money, inevitably.)

Hardy fish are guppies. They can survive in not quite ready waters.

I would avoid non community fish like siamese fighters, they may look pretty....

For tanks have a look around Pets at Home etc.

Thanks!
My dad used to have a Siamese fighting fish called Brian, apparently, who survived a break-in that smashed the tank. Possibly he ate the burglar.

Neons, Zebras, that kind of thing are hardy. Guppies and Mollies can be good too.

Avoid anything with the word Barb in the name or you will have no fish left in the morning .

Cherry Barbs are okay, and robust :D

Don't add neons or any kind of tetra until the tank's been set up at least 6 months.

Only ever add a few fish at a time and slowly build up stock.

Danios are hardy and are a good starter fish to get the tank going.

Google "fishless cycling" before you start and read everything you can find on the subject - be aware that if the health of your fish is your top priority then you will be stuck staring at an empty tank for a while until it's ready to take fish.

Ooh, thanks, Rossco -- morning carnage would cast something of a pall over the cornflakes.

Danios look good.
Plastic fish, then, till it all settles down? Any advice on types of tank, RubberDuck?

Oh and it's a myth that tropical fish are less robust than goldfish btw... I've found coldwater fish to be FAR more sickly and fragile. Tropical are a far better starter fish

Just, for the love of all that is holy, steer clear of marine ...

Can't really advise on the tank tbh. I have a Biorb (60L) but I'm not sure I'd recommend it now as it's a faff to change the cartridges and is very expensive for its size.

I'm seriously considering replacing with a Juwel. Fluval are also a good make. Get as big as you can afford/have space for as the larger tanks (while more of a pain to do a water change) are more stable (plus you can have more pretty fish!!). If you can, get an external filter - they're better and easier to maintain.

A good local fish shop owner who can guide you through all this is worth their weight in gold. Steer clear of Pets@Home and big faceless garden centre type places.

I have a Juwel tank and love it, the filter is really easy to get to and change the components even though it is in the tank - the bigger the better in some respects as water quality issues are more "diluted" in a bigger tank, allowing you a bit more time to get that late check on water quality done and the water changes too. You really do need to monitor the water though - you can buy test kits to do this. Again reading on the fish forums you will see what this is all about.

Have fun - love my fish

Thanks all -- off to do some more reading up. I'll have a google for Fluval and Juwel!

Do not buy a biorb. There are many many reasons for this and I will tell you if you fancy reading a long geeky sciency post

A Juwel would be fine for the job you want it for. Get the biggest one you can afford and have space for, it's a myth that smaller tanks are easier to keep. They are actually much much harder and should only be attempted by experts. Something around 15-20 gallons is ideal for a small tropical community tank. Take care not to put too many fish in, overstocked tanks are a pain to keep clean (and therefore keep your fish healthy)

The type of fish you can keep all depends on your water. Most tropical fish like soft water with a low-ish pH, but tap water in the UK tends to be hard and alkaline. This limits your choices quite a lot. Guppies and other live bearers do like this type of water but you will end up with millions of them. Rainbow fish might be a better choice but you'd need to test your water before you could make any firm decisions.

And yes, definitely definitely do a fishless cycle unless you want your fish to die. high fives RubberDuck

Cats.

avoid the pitfall of buying your young daughter an expensive and hard to look after pet!

They are easy enough to look after if you do plenty of research and get the right fish. If you just chuck in whatever you fancy the look of then yes, you will end up with all sorts of problems and it will end up costing you loads. But you can get some very cheap equipment (or free if you're on freecycle) and it shouldn't cost the earth to run it. She will need some help doing the water changes though, there are heavy buckets to carry and siphoning can take a few goes to get the hang of

Long time no wibble about fish, sweetnitanitro

Re guppies: Remember, you can just buy the males and avoid the whole overpopulation thing. The males are prettier anyway. Saying that, I've found guppies to be the canaries of the fish tank world - if there's something wrong in the tank, they float first.

Fish aren't expensive - the tank set up is but the actual fish themselves aren't. A lot of people go in to it thinking that all you have to do is dump them in water and feed them occasionally which is a shame.

OH ... something else FUN for you to look into: real plants and SNAILS! Real plants really make a tank and although it takes a little more trial and error getting them to live (top tip - don't buy until after the fishless cycle is done) it's SO much more attractive and healthy for your tank.

The wrong snails are a right pain, they breed and poo and are a nightmare to get rid of. HOWEVER the right snails are AWESOME - fab to look at and keep unsightly algae down (less cleaning for you!) and don't eat your plants! The right snails are Apple Snails (either just buy one, or regularly remove all eggs from the top of the water line) or Nerite snails (can only breed in specialised circumstances - i.e. in a home aquarium never).

I do love my aquatic snails

OH also, it sounds like a hell of a lot of information at the start, and I know it can be a bit daunting. Fish keeping (properly, where the fish actually ... you know... live) is a steep learning curve, but a mature tank is a very beautiful thing with very little maintenance. If I need to de-stress I always sit by my tank with a cuppa and then everything is all right with the world

Tanks thanks again to everyone who replied. RubberDuck's last post is so evocative I might just have to go and google some fish images right now.

Apple Snails? Right, will add them the the Things to Consider list. Plants would be great, but would they need special lighting?

We do try to do things properly with pets in this household (glares at vast guinea pig pen currently blocking half the kitchen).

You have to be a little careful that you've got suitable lighting with real plants, but most tanks come with suitable lighting (except said biorb... ) in my experience. And even then, I survive by picking plants that don't need a lot of light, like moss balls, anubis nana (which FLOWERS, how cool is that?!) and java fern. I kill off houseplants because I forget to water them - not really an issue for aquatic planting

You can also buy plants very cheaply in pots at P@H (the only thing I go there for) - pots are important for biorbs as it's hard to get anything to root properly. They're so cheap, I treat them as disposable and replace every couple of months or so.

My big project with my next tank though is to have good lighting and a proper planting substrate so I can go for a really lush tank.

You do need lighting for plants but it doesn't have to be expensive. Most tanks will come with a light and this is fine to use as long as you pick the right plants. You have to be careful because a lot of shops sell plants that aren't even real aquatic plants and they just die and mess up your water. Here's a list of plants that are easy to grow in low lighting-

Cryptocorynes- almost impossible to kill and stay fairly small
Java fern- needs to be attached to a bit of bogwood, makes a nice centrepiece
Hygrophila polysperma- grows very fast so you need to keep it trimmed
Java moss- needs to be attached to the wood too

That should be plenty for a small-medium tank. If you put the hygrophila at the back and the crypts at the front it should work pretty well. All my tanks ever have had this exact planting scheme because I am crap at growing plants and too poor to buy fancy lights

Live plants do make a tank much prettier and therefore better viewing for those rare moments you get to relax! They are nicer for the fish too and not really that much extra work, just trimming and fishing out dead leaves when you clean the tank.

RubberDuck is dead right about the learning curve, fishkeeping is much more complicated than most people anticipate so I would do plenty of research on water quality and the nitrogen cycle in relation to fish on a fish-type website. There are some good articles HERE

Hope that helps!

my now deceased (sob) apple snail

tiger nerite

yellow apple snail

my current fish tank - note I need to refresh some of my plants!

my plants looking more healthy - anubis nana flowering!

Think about getting some clown loach when your tank is settled. They grow quite a bit larger than most of the fish mentioned here (3 or 4 inches perhaps) so you only need one or two and live for ages - they are my favourite fish. They are pretty (orange and black stripes), active and best of all they click loudly when they are hungry - bet you didn't realise that fish could talk?.

(It has been said, that I only went into fishkeeping for something else to photograph.... )

Erm, beware about clown loaches - they grow BIG 16 inches fully grown and are too big for most hobbyist aquariums.

"Clown Loaches are often sold at the very immature size of 1.5 inches (4cm) or so, but they should not be considered for the smaller (or even medium-sized) aquarium. They will grow quite rapidly from this cute size to around 5 inches (13cm), thereafter the growth slows somewhat, but with good care in a large tank, they can easily reach 8 to 12 inches (20 - 30 cm). They are big, bulky fish at that size. The two fish pictured were 8.5" and 10.5" body length when pictured. That is a standard foot rule beside them.

A potential owner should seriously consider the long-term commitment in purchasing a group of this species, as they will require ever- increasing size of aquaria and may potentially live at least twice as long as some small dogs."

Also - I'd advise doing your initial research, then visit several retailers and talk to the staff. If you are lucky, you'll find a small owner-run business run by someone who loves the whole business and who will let you pick their brains and who you will be able to return to for more help when things don't go to plan.

Rubberduck, we had a pair of clown loaches for 15 years and they never made it anywhere close to 16 inches. Perhaps they dies prematurely before reaching full-size?