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Original poster

BELLAAAA or anyone in the know, please help, i feel really upset <sad>

38 replies

loopylou6 · 24/05/2009 18:28

Have also put this in chat.

Had a very strange couple of days with my dogs,

I have a blue mearle collie dog, very gentle, very good temperament, but yesterday my son complained she was growling at him, i hid on the stairs and watched, and she was indeed growling (he hadnt done anything to her by the way) i went down to her and gave her a smack and told her off, then she bared her teeth at me and sort of went for me, DH came home, i told him about it and he went to her and she did the same thing, very surprising as he is her master.

Then tonight i gave my 6 month old GSD his tea, i was putting his food in the bowl and he was sat beside me waiting, dh walked in and stood next to me and my GSD growled, again amazingly surprising as he has NEVER had any issues with people being near him when he is eating, and certainly not with me, (i made a point of putting my fingers in his bowl when he was a pup) DH then isisted that he wanted to give the dog his food, he put the bowl on the floor, the dog went to eat it, DH tried to stroke him whilst he was eating, and he growled
i tried it being 100% sure he wouldnt growl at me, but he did, quite badly

I now feel heartbroken as i have had a major bond with that dog from when i got him at 4 and a half weeks, i am his master and i love him to bits, i feel really upset that he would turn on me like this, i used to be able to move his bowl when he was eating if he was in the way etc, or stroke him and there was never a problem, am i over reacting, or does this mean hes not gonna be the gentle dog i thought he was?

OP posts:
bella39 · 24/05/2009 18:56

{sad]

Firstly, I'd get them checked out, esp the collie, by your vet to rule out anything physical.

Secondly, don't ever hit a dog in this situation. I know it's a natural reaction esp when your dc are involved, but it will only exacerbate the problem.

Your GSD pup is showing what I would class as relatively normal (albeit undesirable) behaviour round his food. He is growing up and his aggression (one of the qualities we breed GSD's for) is developing. You and DH can try adding food to his bowl to improve the situation, but he may never be 100% happy with DH around his food, and to some extent that is his right.

The collie is more worrying, imho. Is there any background between her and your ds? It could well have a medical reason, or she could be reacting to the fact that the GSD is growing up and she is just about to share her home with an adolescent male dog.

If it were me I would see the vet, then a good, properly qualified behaviourist. I had a JRT a long time ago who became very aggressive all of a sudden and that had a medical reason, so please do at least get the collie checked out.

I'll try and round up King and some other doggy people to help.

Don't leave any children unsupervised with the collie, even for a split second.

HTH

KingCanuteIAm · 24/05/2009 19:00

I am not sure what to suggest and I hope Bella will be along soon.

For now I would make sure they are not unsupervised with the dc. As you said on the other thread the Collie is just off heat so it could be something to do with that (although I am surprised this is the first time she has reacted like this given she is 5yo). You say she mated but you think they did not finish, could she be having a phantom pg? This would mess with her hormones and her head. I suppose the best thing to do is get her to the vet for a check over. Growling at the dc more than once is a problem.

The GSD is a baby, he has plenty of time to be re-trained. If the collie is not behaving normally then he could be picking up on that stress and be acting out because of it. I would probably go back to basics with him and get dh feeding him, you taking him off etc - but softly softly, pretend he never knew anything, jumping in with both feet could tip him over the edge if he is already stressed. The reason it could be food is, if the collie is pg (or thinks she is) she could be getting more threatening with him over food so he feels he has to protect it IYSWIM. She will want to stock up on food as her body will be telling her to.

I don't know if any of this helps, just remember not to take it personally, they are acting out for a reason and I doubt it is anything to dowith you at all!

KingCanuteIAm · 24/05/2009 19:01

lol, X post - ignore everything I said and listen to Bella (will nowhave to read what she sadi myself)!

KingCanuteIAm · 24/05/2009 19:02

Oh, perfect! Bella, on the other thread Lou said that the collie has just come off heat and was covered, although not finished (she thinks) by a dog visiting the garden.

Original poster
loopylou6 · 24/05/2009 19:07

Hi guys, thank you sooooooo much for your responses, BOTH of you have made me feel soooo much better, it makes sense what you say about the agression bella, suppose he is like a teenager now, finding his feet a bit.

King i will deffo get the collie checked out

OP posts:
bargainhuntingbetty · 24/05/2009 19:12

Bella, can I ask are you a dog expert? Do you give out free advice lol?

Original poster
loopylou6 · 24/05/2009 19:17

Bella is a star shes been here for my many questions since i got my pup, shes luffly

think shes a vet nurse with dogs of her own

OP posts:
bargainhuntingbetty · 24/05/2009 19:18

Oooh my dog is driving me nuts, maybe she could help.

bella39 · 24/05/2009 19:20

Just lost my internet connection but have now seen your post on chat and yes, I'd say get her looked at. Even if she isn't pg she may be having a phantom pregnancy and her hormones could well be all over the place.

As an aside, please don't do any rank reduction with either of them - yet another big scientific study has been done which proves that's all balderdash, so if anyone tells you to pin them on the floor, make them eat after you etc., please ignore.

And betty - no, wouldn't say I was an expert but I do love talking dogs (and cats, hammies, horses...)

Very occasionally venture out into rest of MN but spend 99% of my time here!

Keep us posted loupy, pls.

Original poster
loopylou6 · 24/05/2009 19:21

Will do Bella, thanks again x

OP posts:
bella39 · 24/05/2009 19:22

x post with loopy - that's very kind of you

I was a vet nurse, yes. Best job in the world

bargainhuntingbetty · 24/05/2009 19:22

Sorry to hijack your threadd Loopy but I have been trying for weeeks to find someone to discuss my dog with.

bella39 · 24/05/2009 19:23

What's the problem, Betty? There are lots of very knowledgeable people on Pets

bargainhuntingbetty · 24/05/2009 19:29

I didnt actually know there was a pet bit on herre.

I have 2 Collies, they are sisters aged 4 and 3. The oldest one is sooooooo hyper all the time. I have hadd her at the beach today for 3 hours, playing with other dogs, ball chasing, swimming etc and yet she came straight in and paced the floor, got on the couch up in peoples faces, then went out and stalked thhe rabbit (she doesnt do anything to her she just stalks her). She is high all the time and seems to be getting worse.

I do work part time but she is extremely well walked and I try and designate 30 mins a day to brain traiining (she gets so high when doing this that she doesnt actually learn anything). What can I do???? She also has really bad breath could the two be connected and be a health problem rather than just her being a nutcaase?????

Thank you

bella39 · 24/05/2009 19:37

The two first things I'd do are have her checked by a vet (I always seem to say this but it is worth doing for any change in behaviour) and you say she's getting worse), and also look at their food. Some brands have a lot of additives which can make some dogs hyper.

As you know, collies are highly intelligent working dogs. You seem to be covering the exercise more than adequately. What is brain training for dogs? Presumably not on a DS?!

bargainhuntingbetty · 24/05/2009 19:41

No I basically just try and teach her new tricks etc. Makee her stay while I walk to the other side of the room, make her wait before catching the ball etc. basiccally things too make her focus on me and listen rather than tearing about like a loon. Shhe is a lovely dog but shee is driving me nuts,

bella39 · 24/05/2009 19:45

Have you taught her to 'settle'? (e.g. use a house lead, you sit down and tell her to lie down, then tuck lead under your foot and give the 'settle' command, then praise her calmly for lying quietly?).

bella39 · 24/05/2009 19:48

And loopy, thinking more about your situation, if your collie is pg or turns out to be, she may be very unhappy having an uncastrated male around so that could explain her behaviour. As your gsd enters puberty then he will be very sensitive to your collie's hormones.

So although I don't think the 2 incidents are linked necessarily, but there could be more problems in the future unless one or both are neutered.

HTH

bargainhuntingbetty · 25/05/2009 11:30

Oooh Bella I like that one I have never thought of teachin her to settle. We just say 'Bed' andd she goes forr about 5 minutes then paces again. I will give that one a go. Thankss

bella39 · 25/05/2009 15:50

Yes, definitely worth a try. Even my mad bouncy lab will do this now.

Good luck

bargainhuntingbetty · 25/05/2009 17:48

Roughly how long did this take?? I know shee will fight me on this but I definately want to give it a go. Thanks

bella39 · 25/05/2009 17:51

A week or so? Yours is uber-intelligent so she should get it quickly.

KingCanuteIAm · 25/05/2009 17:56

It may not be quite the same but I have been teaching my puppy down-stay. To do this I get him to do a down then say stay and withold the treat he would usually get for a down. At first it is for 1 or 2 seconds and you just keep building it up.

The golden rules are; always treat when they are in the desired position and always congratulate them in a calm manner, the idea is to get them to associate the position with relaxing not excitement.

As an aside, when you are training her do you use and excited or calm voice for congratulating her? If you are being very "up" then she will feed from that. Using a calm manner with her at all times may help her to bring her level down IYSWIM.

bargainhuntingbetty · 25/05/2009 17:57

She would be if she was calm enough to concentrate on what I was telling her lol.

So I just, every time I settle down to watch tv or soemthing I just leash her and make her lie down and teach her the word settle?? Is thhat how it woorks??

KingCanuteIAm · 25/05/2009 17:58

Sorry bella X posted! I don't want to barge in on your advice or reveal my ignorance