Help desperately needed with puppy!!

[mum2seb]

Here I am again. I'm sure you're all going to start avoiding me, but I need help AGAIN!!

Ok, so when we brought our Lakeland Terrier pup home a week and a half ago, he was fine at night for the first few days - weed his bed before I could get to him in the morning and had one or two pooh accidents. But we didn't hear a peep from him all night.

Fast forward a week, and he's howled from 3am since Sunday night! What is going on? This morning was a nightmare (I am not exaggerating, btw!). I got up to him at 2.30, and he'd wet his bed, and as soon as I let him out of the crate he pooed on the floor before I could get him out the back. So I cleaned up, put him back to bed. I put a warmed up wheat thing in with him, wrapped up in a towel to try and get him comfy.

He started barking and howling pretty much as soon as I turned the light off. I went back to bed, and myself and dh lay listening to him. Dh kind of lost the plot, and came down, put pup in the kitchen in his crate (we're open plan downstairs, and the kitchen is separate with a door) until dh got up at 6am. I'm glad he came down first - it was a bit of a disaster. Pup had pooed in his bed, and then managed to spread it EVERYWHERE - all over the inside of the crate - up the bars over the base and his bed, and all over the kitchen floor!! The wheat thing had been destroyed (I knew somewhere in the back of my mind that I'd regret using it!) and there was wheat everywhere too. God, this sounds like something out of some sick comedy sketch! So the crate had to be hosed down, and the dog had a bath this morning!

What am I doing wrong? Come on I can take it - I NEED to know what to do and to rectify any mistakes I'm making!! He's a lovely puppy - in the daytime, a positive joy!! I've taught him to sit, come to his name, and he follows me around everywhere. He plays beautifully with the children, and I can't wait to get out of the house with him (he has his final vaccination next Tuesday). But nights are turning into a hell on earth (not to overstate it!!). Getting rid of him isn't even an option in my mind. So please don't say anything like that!! But please help!!

I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I think it is par for the course at this age, tbh.

The trick is to use a crate small enough that pup can move etc but doesn't have a separate toilet area. This will encourage them to try not to poo or wee in their bed, but remember at this age their control is almost non-existent, so often by the time they realise they need to go it's like 'whoops! I've gone!'.

Use easily washable non-destructible bedding - old towels from charity shops are ideal and be prepared for some morning where you just need to chuck everything in the washing machine while you wipe all the mess up...

And try to make sure he's not having his last feed too late in the evening (6pm is late enough).

But this stage does not last long. Honestly.

Thankyou, thankyou!! I've just read your post to dh, who sounds a bit more positive now, too! I don't know - I go from children who don't sleep to a dog who doesn't, either! I should be used to it, I suppose!! I'll hit the charity shops and see if I can find any cheapy towels.

Thanks again!

If he's having runny poos it may be that he has worms, or as you've only had him a little while he could be getting used to his new diet? So I guess it will either settle down on its own or you could try worming him.(Not sure about dogs but kittens can get worms from their mother's milk)

But as bella said he's only little and is just as likely to be that. Welcome back to the baby days!

And btw, I never avoid people asking for help with puppies.

I have heard strange rumours that there are other threads on MN than Pets, but am somewhat dubious

I'm concerned that you say he's wet his bed. Dogs don't do this by choice, they don't like it, and that's possibly the main cause of his crying, you don't expect your kids to sleep in their wee, do you?.

I guess his crate is just the right size for him/his bed, he can't have a bed at one end, and newspaper to wee on at the other?

If so, it isn't suitable, until he can go thru the night without needing a wee.

Back in the old days, before crates were fashionable, I always raised puppies by putting their beds in the kitchen overnight , with newspaper on the floor by the back door for wees. Maybe you could try this approach, put his crate in there, but open so he can get out for a wee, with a good layer of newspaper down. You may need to show him that it's ok to wee on the paper, by putting him on it when he shows signs of squatting, and praise when it is done on the paper. Praise also for wees outside, of course.

Hope this helps

I'll have a go tonight at making one end of his crate into the en-suite!! I have some puppy pads that a friend gave me, failing that, some newspaper! I DID want to leave the puppy in the kitchen with paper down (it's what we had done with my previous dog), but dh seems to have become rather precious about his kitchen cupboards (not that pup has had ANY interest in them in daylight hours!!). So I suppose we'll persevere with the crate!

So I shouldn't be making the crate smaller, then (a relative said that would be a way of doing it - I can't help but think that this would make it worse. It won't exactly stop him from making a mess, will it!?)

Right, I shall update in the morning!! Hopefully after a slightly less horrific morning!! (Poor dh, I'm almost sorry for him!! Although if my 2 1/2 yr old starts with the 'f' words I heard this morning, I don't think I'll be too impressed!).

Bella, I haven't read any other part of Mumsnet since before getting the puppy, either! Oh dear - you're all very friendly/ helpful on here though!! Thanks!

Mum2seb - there are two schools of thought. Either you use a larger crate with paper (or paper on the floor) and teach the puppy to go on the paper, or you use a smaller crate with room only for their bed.

I use the latter because ime it's usually quicker and if you use paper then you have to teach the puppy at some point that it's not acceptable to wee/poo on any paper left lying around.

It's up to you and you'll find strong advocates for both sides!

but the smaller crate idea doesn't work if pup's bladder isn't big enough to get him thru the night. It just means he HAS to wee in his bed, which seems a bit mean (and he's more likely to wake you up).

I know - I do get up when they are very small. Just depends how you want to do it really.

For a long time we had to let the puppies out at about midnight, and again at about 5am, as they just couldn't last longer than that.

Certainly wouldn't let him loose in the kitchen - that almost guarentees a cupboard chewing incident.

Does he have a favourite toy or blanket, a comforter type thing that could be left in his crate. THe smellier the better.

Does he ever go in his crate during the day time i.e. does he associate the crate as a nice place to chill out or just as a prison in the darkness of night?

Perhaps try leaving a light on?

My lab was exactly the same when she was tiny ... she'd just wee and poo in her bed at night and then cry when she worked out what she'd done. It was a bit of a nightmare and I remember many nights spent changing her bedding.

If it helps, it didn't last long in reality (although it felt like forever at the time). I kept her in her cage and just changed her whenever I didn't get to her in time. I did take her out every three hours when she was very small and then gradually dropped it to every four hours and so on until she managed to go all night.

There is also an element of trying it on too - dogs very, very quickly know how to pull your strings. To avoid getting into the cycle of pup crying and then you going down to him (nice result in the pup's mind!) which may result in crying for your attention whenever he wants it I tried to make sure I went down before the noise started - and if it had already started I tried to wait until there was a tiny lull before I moved.

You're definitely not doing anything wrong. All I can suggest to help the clearing up is to take the pup outside more frequently at night and perhaps leave a radio on quietly - it helped with my dog.

Oh yes - and as Bella said, don't feed after 6pm it can only help!

"I have heard strange rumours that there are other threads on MN than Pets, but am somewhat dubious"

and blonde has seen you on a few other threads apart from pets -though think they i scared you

OP - listen to bella -she is the wise one with dogs!!

but agree that dogs very rarely wet/poo their own bed, though all dogs have accidents - just as children get pooey pants

it sounds like he cant hold his bladder overnight. A lot of stuff ive read has suggested putting the crate in your bedroom over night so you can hear if they need a wee. I got my pup on tue (9 weeks) I have a crate but im leaving the door open. If im in the house hes with me and if im not hes in the kitchen, i leave him in there over night as well. Things would prob be going a bit quicker though if i used the crate properly!