Howling - help please!!!!!! Chocolate for the winner!

[bella29]

Right, come on now people, serious help needed here please

My nearly 1 year old lab puppy usually wakes about 6 am and used to whimper a bit when he did.

This has now developed into full scale, hound-of-the-baskervilles howling: OW-OW-OW-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!

And of course it's getting earlier and earlier as the mornings get lighter.
My current strategy is to bear it as long as possible then, when there is a brief pause in his very authentic impersonation of a Yellowstone wolf, I leap up and go down to him. But it's not helping....

Please help me - the sanity of Bella & family is at stake here. I will send chocolate to anyone who can fix this.

And please don't believe those dog books that say labs aren't noisy

er... black out blinds... spray collar?

Hmm....I like your thinking re the blackout blinds, sleeps, but sadly not feasible due to strange windows and glass doors in the kitchen where he sleeps.

The anti-bark collars are something I've never liked (but haven't tried either).

Thasnk you - you are still in the running for a big bar of Galaxy/Green & Blacks/whatever

Anyone else got any ideas - please?!

Is he bursting for a wee or poo or is he just demanding attention?

Another vote for an Aboistop collar - noise activated spray collar. Work like a charm for 95% of dogs.

Ignore him - it might take weeks. But if you respond to him by going down then he's learning he can get you to come when he does it. Get some ear plugs for the next few weeks.

its much easier to run downstairs when it starts, washing up liquid bottle with water in at the ready and bellow "NO!" and aim water jet between the eyes....

then go back to bed til you'd normally get up

Will only take a few mornings - dogs learn fast

LOL - I had a feeling you would come up with a water bottle or tub of beans answer, Lewisfan!!!

Do you really think it'll work?

I do hold on as long as I can before going down (45 mins this morning) but there comes a point where I do have to get up, although I try to make that coincide with his being quiet.

Have changed the central heating timer because I think that he gets woken by that. If that doesn't work I may try the water, Lewis, but I don't want to scare him...

I know it'll work - my mum's a dog behaviourist and trainer - she's done it to her own dogs and advocates it to her customers... no failures yet

Honestly - do it for a couple weeks; what you gotta lose? but you've got to do it at the first yowl - not wait and wait

PS - its gotta be a super soaker style jet of water - not a shower spray.... otherwise they think it's a game

pps (should read entire post first, shouldn't I!)

it won't scare him - it'll make him jump; to snap him out of the howling habit and to say "oh flamin heck, she's boss.... best shut up before I get wet again" but no more than that

Have visions of myself in PJ's with huge machine-gun style soaker....

I have tried my little cat-get-off-the-worktop squirter but, like you say, he thinks it's lovely.

But....

Changing the central heating this morning worked!!!!! Not a peep out of him

Might not be a great option in January, though

get an aboistop collar, it squirts out citronella spray when they bark, it surprises the dog, they dont like the spell - you can hire them from your vets. On the same note - two things, DAP defuser - relases Dog Appeasing Pheremones, takes a couple of weeks to work, on the expensive side but might help her feel more secure.
Get her speyed, you should do this anyway.

If all else fails, give in and let her sleep on your bed! its only a matter of time anyway

I like milk chocolate - big bar of dairymilk will do!! xx

Oh the water pistol -well thats ok, but she might think its a game, my dog did - but also, its getting her what she wants, your attention. Not cruel though

oh, see all my suggestions have been covered - i dont mind sharing

With the spray collar, the dog doesn't know it's you making the collar spray as it is remote controlled, so they don't associate the thing they don't like with you, only the behaviour you want to stop. It just makes the dog jump, it doesn't hurt them, they then associate the behaviour they're doing with something that they don't like, so stop doing it. They honestly do work, we were at the point of rehoming our lurcher because of how he was reacting to cats, one session with a trainer and a spray collar and a year on he's not reacted to a cat since

Have I won, have I won?? A big bar of dairymilk would be great, the biggest that will fit through my letter box should do the trick

Wow - thank you all for your suggestions!

I know I am only delaying the inevitable by changing the heating timer, although I secretly hope that by breaking the habit of howling he may forget to howl when the heating starts coming back on in the winter. Delusional on my part, possibly...

Lewis - I am sure your tactic would work a treat but my big problem with it is that I don't want him to associate Mummy opening the kitchen door with getting a big blast of water in his face! This is a big soppy puppy who, bless him, has never known any kind of fear or unkindness in his life. I have used reward based training all the way with him, and I really don't want to change that now. You do make me laugh, though, and you do talk a lot of sense both here and on other threads!

LEMAGAIN: I don't think it's insecurity - he settles very happily in the kitchen at night, usually with my other dog for company. He just knows when it's wakey time!

Now I guess that leaves you, sleepsforwimps...

I googled the collar but I think they are £85 (is that right?) so I will ask my vet to see if they rent them out. I can see that the collar would have Lewis's desired effect without creating any association with anything other than the howling.

Thank you all

If I manage to get hold of one and it works you can choose any chocolate you want!

My thank you all should have been right at the end, since the 'any chocolate you want' was meant for sleepsforwimps.

Have no idea how I did that

Lewis - I am sure your tactic would work a treat but my big problem with it is that I don't want him to associate Mummy opening the kitchen door with getting a big blast of water in his face! This is a big soppy puppy who, bless him, has never known any kind of fear or unkindness in his life. I have used reward based training all the way with him, and I really don't want to change that now. You do make me laugh, though, and you do talk a lot of sense both here and on other threads!

have you SEEN how wolves treat eachother in the wild??! Get a dvd and see it for a while - remember that dogs are 89% wolf and you'll see just how much they'll be FINE with

He won't associate the door opening with water because every other time it opens and he's not howling the house down, you'll be friendly and pleasant to him

Your choice, of course, but I know I'd rather a sociable dog that's bottom of the pack than a howler that controlled me!

OH and if you don't want to be mean - do NOT use citronella. it stings, it's cruel and it's just plain unnecessary - and who needs to spend nearly a hundred quid when water in a bottle does the EXACT same job?!!!

PS - watch the Dog Whisperer - that's how we train at the dog school; it's not mean and it's not alienating the love from the dog - it's treating a dog as an animal that needs to know it's place in order to function correctly, that's all

and he is bloody gorgeous (the dog whisperer that is!!!)

he is!!! You can drool and learn all at the same time - it's fab!

No, sorry, we are going to have to agree to disagree here, Lewis. I think the whole pack theory stuff is balderdash.

'have you SEEN how wolves treat eachother in the wild??! Get a dvd and see it for a while - remember that dogs are 89% wolf and you'll see just how much they'll be FINE with'

I assume you mean dogs share 89% of their DNA with wolves? We share 96% of our DNA with chimps but I'd like to think our behaviour does differ somewhat

And I am sure wolves don't use water soakers on each other in the wild

My puppy is a domesticated dog, descended over thousands of years from other domesticated dogs whose evolution has made them different in terms of anatomy and behaviour. He's not a wolf.

'Your choice, of course, but I know I'd rather a sociable dog that's bottom of the pack than a howler that controlled me! '

He is perfectly sociable - perfect with people, dogs, children, animals, and he's not controlling me.

I've lived with and worked with dogs all my life and I know a dominant dog when I meet one - this one isn't.

Even if he was, I wouldn't use the methods of a heavily Botoxed man on a heavily edited TV programme. Go ahead and drool all you like over him, I'll stick to the facts

And if anyone's interested, here's a summary of all the scientific evidence showing that pack theory has been discredited...

here

oooh bella, i thought you were going to be dissing ceasar and his good looks!! But thankfully i don't have to bitch slap you because you were just questioning his methods, which in my opinion are shite too.

The artical you linked to is really interesting. Im not sure if i have formed an iopinion based on it. The thing is, someone will always come along with a theory about dog training etc. I do think that harsh training to achieve "dominance" over a dog is foolhardy. But i do think that you can establish dominance in a "calm assertive" (the only ceasar milan phrase i like but i can promise you its not dogs im thinking about when that makes me knees wobble!)

I am a bit about pack theory as your article says, the domestic dog no longer lives in a pack. They however sociable animals and do live in Families. I have smacked my dogs, but never beaten them. I have had two rotweillers, one from a puppy who was impeccably (sp) behaved and one rescue dog that came with "issues". We found our own way with them. Can you imagine if i had beaten them? I'd be minus my hands/face!! But i have always been the boss!

Aversion therapy though does work, if a dog associates a bad thing happening with a behaviour then it may well stop the behaviour. However, if the bad thing causes distress to the dog then i think other undesirable behaviours will manifest themselves due to anxiety. The anti bark collars produce a smell dogs dislike but don't cause distress this is possibly why they work. There seems to be a leaning towards electric collars again, which used to be illegal but i think there is some loophole. I don't agree with these, but, they could possibly be kinder for a pulling dog than a choke chain used incorrectly, or just allowing the dog to pull with an ordinary collar putting excess strain on the neck and halti collars - don't get me started on those bloody things.

As you were ladies - but am going to have to watch the dog whisperer tonight just to check for botox!

LOL at bitch slap, LEMAGAIN (have just realised who you are )

Definitely look for the Botox - he's 40 and has a completely line free shiny forehead. Dead giveaway...

Lewis will probably pop me on a choke chain once she shows up!

Can we start up a thread on discussing behaviour theories - it's jUSt so much fun! Or do I need to get out more?

You need to get out more! But it might actually be interesting - go on I dare you to open one in AIBU!!!