How/when do you know when a pup is just unsettled or just TOO nervy?

[Buda]

Have a thread going on getting terrified new pup out from under car.

He is 14 weeks and I am getting the feeling that he is just too late to settle. A friend has one of his sisters and she is fab but they have had her for7 weeks.

Ours is just as terrified of us as when he arrived even though we spent the day trying to gain his trust. We were really hopeful and he had come as close as to sniff my slippers this evening.

Just now DH suggested I try to gain his trust a bit more with sliced sausage. He took a few pieces from the floor and then 2 pieces from my hand. RESULT!

Then I put some leading into his basket and sat down on floor a bit away from it on his level.

He growled at me and then bared his fangs.

Am I right in thinking that his temprament is just too nervy to be with children?

He has just growled and barked at me again. I am not getting a good feeling but am unsure if I am right.

Help!

What was he like when you saw him at the breeder's?

It doesnt sound good.It sounds as though he hasn't been socialised with people at all. However he may not be feeling well so you could take him to the vet for a check up.
what sort of dog is he?

bella - he seemed ok but I have zero experience. The breeder is keeping 2 bitches from the same litter and she reckoned they were more lively.

fruitshoots - a black lab.

Did he approach you when you went to see him or did he hang back?

Honestly a 14 week old puppy shouldn't be showing that much fear to people. He sounds like he is a fear aggressive puppy, and I'd guess if pushed, he'd bite. That sort of dog is a ticking time bomb. When ever he's scared, you will never know if its the time he'll bite, or just bare his teeth.

Personally, I'd send him back, and find another puppy. You want your puppy to actively come forward when you go to see the litter, and honestly him hiding under the car growling was a big alarm bell.

Sorry

bella - he hung back.

Nutterly - I have no experience of dogs but that is what I am afraid of.

I did warn DS tonight before bed that we might have to let Sammy go back to his home. I am a bit scared of him myself and I would be very nervous of him around children.

At 14 weeks, a puppy shouldn't be scared enough to show teeth and hide under a car unless something really bad has happened (for example fireworks) and it shouldn't last for as long as it has

very odd - esp for a lab. they are usually bundles of friendliness. take it to the vets for a check up (which you should do the day you get a new pup). if there's nothing wrong then get yourself a behavourist asap. and read. lots. this is superb not sure where you stand with sending him back - it quite possibly is the breeder's fault that he's like this - ie he's not been socialised properly - but if that's the case you've kind of missed the window of spotting that something was;t right (ie before you bought it). If you asked all the right questions and everything looked ok - ie you were assured he had been properly socialised - then you might have some grounds. You could try contacting the Kennel Club for advice on taking him back.

just read your other thread and I have to say a couple of things set off alarm bells to me - firstly how come you got him so late? a good lab breeder has usually sold all their pups well before 8 weeks (ie when they actually leave); and then, to be blunt, you don;t sound very prepared for it all. really sorry if I'm wrong but have you honestly thought this all through and done all the necessary preparation?

Buda- hanging back isn't a good sign. Really at that age they should be inquisitive and friendly.

Got to go to bed now but my thoughts/questions are:

Was he the last pup left? 14 weeks is quite old (although I know some people are finding it hard to sell pups due to credit crunch) so why was he not sold already? Given his behaviour it may be no-one else wanted to take him on.

Did you see the mother and where the pups and mother were living?

Fear aggression is not something you want to deal with, especially with dc and as a novice dog owner. I would do my best to return him to the breeder and look for another pup. There are lots of excellent puppy books which will tell you what to look for in a pup, or you can always ask MN!

HTH

x post with hatwoman

hatwoman - I am in Budapest not UK.

We were unprepared. I admit that totally. We have always said that we would get a dog when we move back to UK not now. It just so happens that a friend of mine had 2 labs from this breeder - one over 2 years ago and one from this litter. I was talking to my friend in November just after she got her pup and she mentioned that there was a dog left. I thought about it, hmmed and hawed and left it. Thought about it again but did nothing. Then on Friday night we were out with this couple and she mentioned that there was the same dog left. He has had a hernia op in the meantime. The breeder has also kept 2 bitches.

As we had talked about a dog, and talked about this dog, it seemed like a good idea.

It was a rush decision in a lot of ways but it seemed right. There was someone else interested in the dog apparently and he was supposed to collect on Saturday but couldn't - the breeder warned him that if someone else wanted him she would let him go. It all seemed like it was meant to be.

I spoke to the breeder tonight and she was surprised at the problems. Has never had this with any other of her pups. I think she will take him back. I hope so. The agression scares me.

I don't have much experience with dogs but would have expected friendliness and inquisitivness too. This guy is just not right.

bella - I did see where they were living. It seemed fine. A number of my friends leave their dogs with this woman when they go away and they all speak very highly of her. She obv loves her dogs and they her. Our dog was all over her and very lively and affectionate.

Well to update. Had a bad night with him. Crying and barking and howling. If I went down to him he stayed hidden under the car again. I sat on sofa in playroom and he cam him and was alternately scared and aggressive if i got too close.

DH got up around 6 and sat with him for ages - he was fine - got up on sofa and slept.

Then when he heard me up and about getting DS ready for school he bolted into garage again. Came back into playroom and DH shut them both in there so I could get car out of garage safely. I took DS to school. Cleaner arrived and he was hiding under a chair in the playroom. She is a dog person and breeds them herself so is very experienced. She fed him a bit of ham which he took and then growled at her too.

He is still hiding under the chair and shaking.

I have phoned the breeder and she is coming to get him. My cleaner wonders if we were not the first family to get him and he was traumatised way there. The other possibility is that he had a hernia operation - I suppose that could have done it.

Whatever the reason the poor thing is alternately scared and aggressive. He is definitely not happy here and I would not be happy to have a dog that may be aggressive.

I just hope that he settles back at the breeders. I think she will keep him now.

Sounds like he's possessive. May seem ridiculous to say that, but sounds like he's so set in the routine that he's in the back room with mum and left alone - to shove him into a family where there's no "escape" is scary for him, perhaps

Can you get hold of a copy of Cesar Millan's book? May be worth it as it sounds like you need to be trained to handle the dog

Hello Buda

I am sorry this has happened but I think you are right to give him back as he is going to need quite a lot of help and (without being rude!) an experienced owner. It does sound as if something has traumatised him but in a sense that is irrelevant from your point of view, as you were looking for a trustworthy, friendly pup for your first dog.

He may be happiest back with the breeder - if she was so surprised that he is like this then we must assume that he didn't show any of this behaviour with her.

I agree that it sounded like a good idea to get him but perhaps the only thing lacking was (again, don't mean to be rude!) your experience in choosing a pup. They should be quite confident and friendly when you go to choose one - some people say choose an 'average' one, who isn't the first out to greet you (as they might be too bold) but doesn't stay at the back either. Of course, it's also a lot harder when there is only one pup to choose from! I would recommend Gwen Bailey's The Perfect Puppy as a good book to get you started.

Anyway, hope it all works out for you

OMG! She came to get him and he was SO happy. Jumping around and licking her and so so excited. Just as a puppy should be.

She was really worried about him and had brought his mum along in case she needed help to get him to go but it was not needed.

I am sad that he was so unhappy here but happy that he is so happy now. As the breeder said she is stuck with him now!

He had a hernia op a while ago and she took him and was there when he woke up. My cleaner has had the same experience with 2 of her dogs and reckons that it deepens the bond for the dog.

So he is gone now and I have had a bit of a cry.

You did the right thing, Buda. He will be happy now and you will find a lovely, cuddly, friendly pup who will chew your house to shreds and poo and pee more than you ever thought possible, honest

You are not selling this well bella!

The breeder offered to try and find us another but I think we will hold off a bit. Just spoke to a friend and she said to start looking straight away as it might take a while but tbh - I think I had underestimated the effort involved. I will have to think long and hard about doing it again.

DH and DS will really want one asap though I think.

Have been following your threads Buda, but did not post as we are still novices at the puppy thing.

I can heartily recommend getting another pup. When you have one that is happy in your home and settles well, it is really fabulous.

We got our little Daphne about 6 weeks ago. She is already (pretty much) housetrained, she sleeps through the night wihtout needing out already and is so affectionate and loving. She is such a part of the family.

Even DH (who was a bit hesitant about the idea) has grown to love her. I caught him letting her lick his face the other day.

You did the right thing, giving the pup back. He was obviously too attached to the breeder.

lol, Buda - I didn't even get started on the sleepless nights

Yes they are a lot of work (similar to having a new baby at the start) but I reckon they are worth it.

Anyway, sorry you had a bad experience but very best of luck with whatever you decide to do in the future.

Bella x

you did the right thing Buda. sounds like the poor thing's had a bit of a rough ride if he's already had an operation...he probably associates strange places and strange people with going under the knife - the thing is this rather rotten experience (ie the op) has happened at a really crucial stage in his development - the stuff they learn at this age stays with them for life. chalk it all up to experience, get yourself a book or two, and, if after reading about the reality, you still want one, put your heart into doing it all the right way. having a puppy and a dog is fantastic. I'm so in love with mine it stops me in my tracks sometimes. all the best.

Hello bella and Hatwoman!

Buda you definately did the right thing. Labs are usually very friendly, lovely puppies so do not let this put you off but perhaps as Bella suggested be a bit careful choosing next time (no offense meant at all ) Maybe your cleaning lady could help, if she is experienced with dogs!

Having a new puppy is hard work but Should be lots of fun for you and the puppy too. This just was not the right dog for you but as the breeder now has him back, no harm done.

Good Luck!

bella - thanks.

hatwoman - that is so lovely about being so in love with yours. I amazed myself this morning by bursting into tears as soon as the breeder arrived - considering we only had him 36 hours. I felt so sorry for him. He has had a rough time. Just that we were part of it.

newpup - he was a lovely, friendly puppy before we picked him up and was very happy when the breeder arrived.

I know what you mean about the choosing. It just sort of happened though.

I think the breeder was happy to have him back although she had decided to keep 2 females already so now she has 3 out of one litter.