My lovely Leo (horse) is a farrier phobic.

[dooit]

I've had Leo (the most chilled, lovely, gentle horse I've ever known) for a couple of months now. He only 4 and was neglected with very minimal handling (although he was backed after a fashion) prior to us getting him.

He's a dream to have around. My 8, 9 & 14 year old DDs can handle, groom and generally be around him with no problems whatsoever.

Leo had had zero hoof care in the 4 years before we got him (feet cracked as hell and the size of dinner plates) but was shod just before we brought him home. His breeder/owner said he was ok to shoe in front but fidgety with his hind feet. She said they did manage to "sort him" though.

I've not had any problems handling his feet at all and even my little DDs can pick his feet out, however when my farrier, who is very quiet and gentle with him, tries to do his hind feet he goes ballistic. Kicking out with, serious intent and is obviously terribly frightened. Today, on his second attempt to shoe him, my farrier was kicked in spite of his patient handling and the horse was very distressed.

By pure coincidence there was a vet on the yard who sedated Leo in order to get the job done with the minimum distress all round. Sadly even after the job was done and Leo was coming round he was still very worried about the farrier being around him.

I'm 99.9% sure he's had serious a battering off his breeder (who just happens to be a farrier) when first being shod. So my question is, has anyone and their horse overcome such a severe fear and if so how?

We have some sedalin paste now to use next time but if that's not sufficient to calm him then shoeing is going to be a very costly business!

I adore this lovely horse and will do whatever it takes to get him over his fears if at all possible.

Any tips/advice gratefully received.

Could you try him with a female farrier (if you know any)?

Hot or cold shoeing? May it have been the steam (if hot?).

Oh sorry - just reread your thread (I really must go to bed now!) & saw his breeder was a woman too. It's been a long day, sorry.

Is it having his feet held between the farriers knees he doesn't like?

MostlyReindeer he was hot shod, but he lost the plot long before there was any steam around, farrier wasn't even able to get the old hind shoes off!

Good thinking re. the female farrier option bella, I think there is one somewhere around here. I'll try to track her down for a chat I think.

Sorry Bella, I'm ready for bed too and not typing clearly. His breeder(s) are a couple. The woman was responsible for his care (or lack of) and the man is a farrier.

You may well end up having to bite the bullet and have him sedated every time, I have to with my mare - we can do the front ones fine, but she goes ballistic with the backs (dangerously so, even tho' I pick out her hind feet every day) so the vet comes for sedation (1.5X normal dose)every tiem the blacksmith comes. Sedalin paste being insufficent in our case.
PS my mare is fab in every other respect and no one, or horse is perfect so I just suck it up

Do you stable on a livery yard? Do you all group shoe or does the farrier come at various times?

My advice would be simply that, whenver he visits any other horses, your horse is bought in and put in a stable where he can see what is going on (obv. only with horses who are good!). Once he has done this a couple of times the farrier should bring him a small feed (just carrots if that works for you) and put it in without opening the door. Next time he should do it through an open door, next time he should offer it from his hand with an open door, next time a few pats, next time lift a front foot, next time both front, next time a back... (you get the picture)

A horses fear keeps it alive in the wild so it can take a long time to retrain a fearful horse, especially one that actually has reason to fear something (ie Farrier = beating). Take as much time and patience as it takes but do not show fear or nerves. If you are worried that the farrier will get hurt then do not be there, the farrier will not have any fear and so will not feed those vibes to your horse.

The above timetable is obv. for an extreme case, if you feel he is not quite that bad then tie a couple of steps together. If your horse does not like a stablethen you could try holding him next to the farrier with a bucket of carrots and then ignore the horse while you chat to the farrier as the first step and follow from there.

Your horse is still a real baby so there is plenty of time to win him over, use the sedation to do him for now so that he doesn't have to feel that fear alongside the baby steps above.

(Baby steps for a baby ) Do you have a pic BTW?

Ooh, is he the one on your profile? He is lovely!!

We're not on a livery yard birdy. Just me and the farm owner so the farrier only comes to us 2 unfortunately. Your plan would be excellent otherwise. I wonder if I could persuade my farrier to stop by with a carrot every time he has a customer in the vacinity though? He's the kind of guy who would if he could I'm sure.

The heartbreaking thing about today is that even when Leo had gone off the scale in kicking out and being generally beserk with the farrier, he would still let me pick his foot up. He trusted me 100% in spite of everything.

Loshad how old is your mare? How long have you had her? Do you know what started her problem? Has she improved at all since you've had her? Sorry for all the questions.

Yes, that's him birdy. He's so lovely. That was taken the day we went to see him for the first time. He'd only been sat on a handfull of times.

Can nyou hold his feet whilst the farrier does them and how about leaving him unshod behind for now and just rasping them, you could borrow a rasp and just play with it on his back feet. All my ponies have only ever been shod in front and I've had several horses that have been fine like that.

Dooit - she's 9 now and i've had her since she was a foal so no mishandling issues, but she used to have locking stifles and i think the panic induced by that has remained in her (admittedly slightly dizzy) mind. I did try working her unshod but it was a disaster - she has flat TB feet, and spent more time off with corns than in work.
Like you she's not on a livery yard - she's at home with an unshod companion pony. I do think that we might possibly be able to work through it with less sedation, then sedalin etc, but my farrier won't hear of it (to be fair she was very dangerous the only time he tried to shoe her behind unsedated) and a) he's good and b) I can't find another farrier so I've sort of accepted it.

If he wasn't too bad with the front and you might be able to get by with unshod back which you can rasp, he might be OK with just the sedalin for the front - until he got used to the Farrier and reaslised that he wasn't going to do anything bad.

I've ridden a horse who was clearly broken fairly roughly - froze when you brought the bridle near - he took at least a year to get a bit more relaxed about the whole thing - again, young horse.

I also think that the dropping by with carrots idea is great if you think your farrier would do this.

Good luck

I heard (read?) somewhere of someone borrowing the farrier's apron and wearing it around the horse on a regular basis, as part of a slightly wider approach, to get their horse used to the smell at least

If he is willing to drop by then that would help, like I say, if he has 10 mins to spare he could brush his back legs without lifting them at all and things just to get him away from thinking "THIS IS THE FARRIER" and more thinking, "this is the funny carrot bloke"

I like the idea of getting hold of an old rasp and fiddling with the back feet yourself. Obv. wear a hat and body protector though - and make sure someone else is on site too!

BTW well done to have got that level of trust from a traumatised young horse, it shows that you will probably get through this as he is totally willing to believe in you.

Oh and the apron idea is good too!

Does he let any men handle his back feet? Maybe a different bloke to faff round the back feet on a more regular basis could help. I would def try get him used to you tinkering about with a rasp, with much banging and clanking etc in a safe spot at the back end. I would get him used to having his leg restrained in a similar fashion to blacksmith if you feel safe, and a few seconds a day has got to make a positive difference.

just remembered, one of our youngsters used to get very panicky when a leg was held for more than the few seconds to pick out, and he would literally fall over if you weren't careful. It took him a year or so to get used to farrier but now he is fine.
Logically this is only the second time he has been shod, and the first time may well have involved lots of shouting and bullying by the sounds of it. I'm sure his trust can be built especially as he lets others near his feet ok

Thank you all for your suggestions.

I'm going to have a go with all of them. Need to get myself a rasp and an apron for starters.

I'll get him more used to being handled by DH who isn't remotely horsey so spends virtually no time around him.

I'll try mimicking the way farriers hold and handle the feet.

Leaving the hind shoes off could be an option if we really can't get through this although at the moment his shoes are helping to support the terrible cracks he developed before we got him. Once they're grown out we could give it ago.

Reading this all through has put a lump in my throat. I'm so sad for him that his early experiences have been rough but like you say NCbirdy he is totally willing to belive in me and that's amazingly rewarding.

dooit a friend of mine had a horse (well, actually a pony - she (the friend) is tiny!) who was so badly treated she couldn't approach her with a bridle or a saddle. She rebroke her using just a headcollar and lead rope and riding bareback. The pony did become fine in the end - shows you what can be done with time, kindness and patience.

If his feet are bad now, worth getting the vet out a few times until the farrier is happy that hind hooves will be OK without shoes. Then you could try just the paste for the front hooves and see how it goes - the more it is done with nothing untoward happening, the easier it should be for the horse.

I would have him barefoot. You say his feet are in a bit of a mess and keeping him barefoot would probably sort that quicker if you get a good trimmer. Is there an Equine Podiatrist near you?

If you don't think his feet are strong enough for him to go barefoot at the moment, would something like this be an option for a while? They are expensive but then horseshoes aren't exactly cheap, especially if you are having to buy sedatives each time too (was he not too bad getting shoes on the front feet? In which case you would only need two anyway). There might be different brands, these were just the first ones I found.
I've never used anything like this so it may be a rubbish idea , I just thought you would still be able to ride him without him getting footsore, and it would buy some time for the farrier. He would still have to pop in for trimming but it would be less traumatic than the whole shoeing thing and might give Leo a chance to relax a bit around him, especially if he brings the aforementioned carrots . At least in the meantime you can be getting his feet into decent shape if you are thinking of trying him barefoot later on.

Lubblyjubblies, my old pony used to panic and fall over if he had to hold his leg up for a long time too. Our farrier used to let him lean up against a wall, then he was quite happy .