My dog went for another dog - unprovoked. Advice please

[StrawberryMoonxx]

I have a 5 year old giant mixed doodle breed dog since she was a puppy. She has been trained and really well natured for her whole life, with zero instances of aggression towards dogs or people.

I have 2 young children. She adapted well to the new home environment with the little ones. She can be very excitable around visitors and food, but apart from that we love every aspect of having her in our family. She has a happy life and walked 3 times a day, very loved.

This morning, when we were leaving the house for our morning walk, she suddenly leaped down the drive, the lead coming out of my hand and attacked a dog that was walking past. The dog was completely innocent and walking calmly with their owner.

it was the worst thing I have ever seen. Had I not rugby tackled her to the floor (daughter in carrier on my chest) I fear she would have terribly injured the other dog. I feel horrendous about it and can’t stop crying. Incredibly upset for the other dog and owner. Thank goodness the other dog walked away after the ordeal. It all seems such a blur, I don’t really know. I apologised profusely.

please advise - I’m going to book a vets appointment to seek advice or if there’s a medical reason for this behaviour.

it has completely unsettled me and I am terrified about my two lovely daughters, as it was so random and completely unprovoked. Completely out of character.
please be kind with comments, I feel so so guilty and horrible about it all.

Unnecessary comment. OP is well aware of the situation.

What type of a doodle? There’s something called cocker rage that my behaviourist friend told me she’s seeing a lot of Cockerpoo’s with. Could it be this?

I hope you offered to pay for a vet visit for the victim dog.

Dog to dog aggression is a totally different thing to aggression towards humans so that wouldn't worry me, especially as she didn't snap at you, even when you restrained her. However you cannot trust her off a lead again and I would muzzle her out of the house.

Sometimes they do just take a dislike to another dog and go for them but there would have been something to trigger it that you aren't aware of.

A visit to the vet is in order, I think, to rule out any physical problems. I know one dog who was like this consistently and it turned out his peripheral vision was terrible so he was just freaking out at these randoms who (from his perspective) appeared out of fucking nowhere right in front of him.

Muzzle you dog when you take it for walks then you can be certain it can't attack other victim dogs.

Trust me I am VERY aware of this. I am absolutely distraught. This is why I rarely post for advice on these forums as you sometimes end up feeling worse from comments like these. I asked for advice.

Thanks for all the helpful comments in this thread.

'Cocker rage' is something that people who know sweet sod all about animals have dreamt up to make them feel better about their inability to train their own dogs. No good vet, behaviourist or trainer would ever use it.

The amount of times people say their dog has this, and actually the truth of the matter is they're just a bad owner who has failed to train their dog and give it what it needs.

exactly, I agree but then I can imagine it was a split second decision.

I would agree with this. She's protective-you're vulnerable with the baby, baby obviously vulnerable-she may see that part of the pavement as her territory. I would not think that from what you've described, that this dog is a danger to your family AT ALL. She was doing her job, as she saw it.
You are now more equipped to know what she can be like, and can take precautions.

My immediate thought is that it was a territorial reaction...your dog viewed the other dog as encroaching on its territory.
This has happened to us twice. Once was a German shepherd off lead on its own drive by it's owner. We were walking past on the opposite side of the street. The GS came for my dog barking and snarling but stopped short of actually attacking.
Second time was my DH walking out dog when a dog launched from the open door of a house across the road and attacked ours. Thankfully our dog's lanky legs prevented the other dog from hitting it's target of the neck but there was still some traumatic injuries.
I agree with pp that if your dog meant to cause harm it would have done. This is why I say it seems like more of a warning to stay away from its territory ( and even possibly a protective thing if you had a baby with you).
Even so I get that it's worrying and at the very least you need to take measures to prevent it from happening again. Get a gate for your drive and/or ensure your dog is secure at all times when immediately outside your house.

Echoing the comments that it sounds very like a ‘get off my family’s territory’ reaction. The only time one of our dogs was seriously injured by another dog, there was no noise, no posturing, no obvious ‘fight’ - the attacking dog just went straight in and sank his teeth into the back of my dog’s neck. I have no idea what caused it and my dog was anxious around the breed of dog that attacked him for the rest of his life.

My main advice is you must make absolutely certain she can not practice this behaviour again. Otherwise it could very easily develop into a habit. Giant poodles are feisty dogs that will fight their corner. I have a dog that can be reactive in certain circumstances. I’ve spent over a year training her to leave other dogs, and come to me always if she sees one. I walk quiet places and look out for other dogs. As soon as I see one I call her and put her on lead. She gets treats for walking past nicely. She can say hello nicely too now but at first I would body block between her and the approaching dog to create space and avoid any growling or lunging. Most of the time she’s absolutely fine now, but every now and then she growls at a dog she dislikes for some reason. I tell her no and walk on briskly. And it goes without saying I hold the lead tight. She has pulled away from me before but I learned from that and I’m ready for her.

There's a very fine line between 'territorial' type behaviour - as you would see in a German Shepherd - and resource guarding. I wouldn't be so quick to say it's territorial behaviour when poodles, labradors and golden retrievers are all incredibly prone to resource guarding behaviours (and I guess OPs dog is some mix of at least two of them). And I think that posters suggesting it's okay, and normal, are being very naive. As OP rightly knows, this was a serious incident and one that people absolutely should not dismiss.

And I really don't think people can say 'if the dog had wanted to cause damage it would' given OP had to rugby tackle her dog to stop it. No one knows how far it could have gone.

@StrawberryMoonxx sorry to ask, but has your dog ever shown any sort of resource guarding behaviour before?

I hope it goes well at the vets, but please do watch your dogs behaviour in the future - and I mean small things, like not getting off the sofa when asked, not releasing toys etc - to make sure this is a one off-incident and not the start of something that could end even more badly.

ALL dogs are unpredictable, however well trained they are. They are not humans - they cannot say they've got a headache and feeling pissed off and need a bit of peace. So they will behave unpredictably.

I do think that I would have concerns about my children after an incident like this. I would keep them apart.

A gate would be a good idea, Dogs can be very territorial.

We moved from a in street terrace with no front garden, to a house with a side garden and drive. The first couple of times DDog really caught us out how defensive he was of people walking past, because he had never been bothered by pedestrians at the previous house, even though he could see them clearly from the window.

Suddenly he was all wild barking at any passers by, especially if they had dogs, because the driveway became "his" and they were too close to it. We installed gates and keep them shut, and he is less bothered now there is a clear barrier. We also have a "dog, keep gate closed" sign for the postie and other visitors.

Nonsense. Complete hyperbole.

My dog is also very territorial. He will bark and lunge at dogs walking past and at delivery people. I have no doubt he would rush at them if he could but it would be all sound and fury. He has been attacked himself unprovoked by other dogs and didn’t even try to fight back so I pretty much know he is all mouth and no trousers but I appreciate other people would have every right to be alarmed. We just have to manage it. We got an outside post box and he is not allowed access to the front door or the window onto the street unless we are there to supervise him.
Whilst out and about he generally really likes other dogs and is polite and friendly it’s just that his instinct to defend his territory is strong (he’s a flock guardian breed)

I guess it’s going to be tricky trying to get a pushchair out of the door whilst making sure your dog can’t escape and would potentially be more difficult to handle so I think maybe I would still use the carrier but just be more prepared now knowing this can happen. I also think that straight to a muzzle is probably not necessary with no actual bite. You just have to think of a plan of how you can have effective barriers and a routine to stop this happening again eg dog stays in the porch behind a stair gate until you are out with the baby and can go back and take control of the dog.

I also think a vet check is advisable as this is new and out of character (my dog has been an arsehole all his life so I expect no less of him). Most likely though she is stressed altogether about the baby in the household and inevitable changes that brings (trigger stacking?) She might need help from a behaviourist to adjust.

My dog is also very territorial. He will bark and lunge at dogs walking past and at delivery people. I have no doubt he would rush at them if he could but it would be all sound and fury. He has been attacked himself unprovoked by other dogs and didn’t even try to fight back so I pretty much know he is all mouth and no trousers but I appreciate other people would have every right to be alarmed. We just have to manage it. We got an outside post box and he is not allowed access to the front door or the window onto the street unless we are there to supervise him.

It beggars belief why anyone would make a voluntary choice to keep a dog that is such a darned nuisance! Why? Just why?

Unfortunately it’s very common.

That is why I don’t think dogs should be allowed in flats.

I live in a flat building and some of the dogs there get territorial about what is obviously shared spaces and they bark and lunge at you if you pass them on the stairs or if their stupid owner gets in a lift with you . It’s massively anti-social.

Not pleasant when you’re just minding your own business going up to your flat and some dog is barking furiously and pulling on its lead as if trying to get to you.

I rescued him from a reputable UK rescue with all good intentions. I will admit that I did not completely know what I was getting into but I am not someone who gives up on a commitment I have made. My kids are teenagers and I am able to give him time and effort including training classes. Our life together is fine thanks very much. Should I make a ‘voluntary choice’ to kill a perfectly healthy dog then? For being ‘a nuisance’ That’s a strange moral code that you live by if you just quit on things that are a bit of a nuisance to you.

What I have described is a dog that barks at the front door/ window which I easily prevent by the few steps described. How is this so bad that it ‘beggars belief’ that I want to keep him?? Loads and loads of people’s dogs do this as far as I can see dachshunds, cockerpoos, terriers. It’s not uncommonly difficult is it? Might be just that most people don’t even try to prevent it with small dogs.

He has his good points too: Never once had an accident in the house, zero separation anxiety, doesn’t steal food, doesn’t run off, isn’t scared of everything all the time, loves a good long walk in any weather as do I, walks nicely to heel doesn’t pull, no allergies, health issues or strange dietary requirements. Most dogs I know have some or a few from that list. None are perfect.

The op had the baby in a carrier and threw herself between 2 fighting dogs with the baby attached to her! How is this nonsense?!?!

I don’t live in a flat. I have a suitable large fenced garden at the back of the house.

Well it isn’t hyperbole it’s just an unkind and unhelpful comment. OP isn’t stupid. She knows it wasn’t the best course of action but acted spur of the moment without thinking as many would do in the situation and she already feels shit and doesn’t need this pointing out. It’s an attacking and unhelpful post that adds nothing to an OP labelled ‘advice please’

The way dogs behave with other dogs is different to how they are with humans. She may have been territorial as it was her drive. I had a collie who was so loving and gentle with humans, but would often display aggression to other dogs. Knowing this, we never allowed her the chance to get near them. No way would I have allowed her to be unsupervised with a child either. She was a wonderful gorgeous dog, but that unpredictabilty was there.

I am sure it is fine with your dog.

However, generally I would never trust any dog 100% around a child (or a cat tbh). Animals can be unpredictable, demonstrably. No matter how docile my dog seemed, I wouldn't leave it where it could grab or bite a kid or leave it alone with a small kid. This doesn't mean the dog was dangerous, or that everyone can't live in harmony in the house, just why take the chance incase some instinct just suddenly triggers?

If that was in response to my post yes I am aware you don’t stay in a flat building based on what you said.

My main point was actually that this kind of thing is common in dogs, but then I tied it into my flat situation - which is of course separate.
And I’m not suggesting you’re like the selfish owners in my building.

I think you’ve actually been responsible with the adjustments you’ve made given the situation.