Aggressive puppy

[twddarylstruelove]

Please can I ask for kindness and empathy, I am really upset. the following will be long so as to give the full story.

5 months ago I was on a camping holiday. There was a man with a Staffy, and I happened to stop and say that they reminded me of my old dog. He then said that he had some puppy’s in the back of his van. He continued saying he had recently been made homeless and didn’t know his dog (bitch) was pregnant.

While I was talking to him his dog was barking and straining towards me. He said that he could let me hold one. I declined.

To shorten the story, he did bring a puppy to me whilst I was with my husband and said we could have her for £xx price.

We already have a dog so said no.

On the last day the man saw me and said he thought we looked like kind people and that we could just have her. After we decided to do this, the man gave some basic information- she was 5 weeks old and had been on adult dog food from 5 weeks. We knew we had to help her.

I spoke to my husband and we decided to take her with the intention of taking her to a rescue centre, we did not think our other dog would accept her
.
Well, our other dog was amazing. She took her on and we decided to keep the puppy.

She was absolutely fine, we carried her with us on other dog walks, she met family and friends at our home, I’ve taken her on puppy walks.

As the weeks have gone on she has become more and more aggressive towards people coming into our home. She barks and growls.

I have been working really hard with her on walks and she will walk past people and dogs with treat based rewards, which has worked so well!
I have spoken to dog trainers and the dogs trust to ask for help.

Today we were walking back from a field we use for her and my other dog to be off lead. A couple were on the narrow path and moved to the side.

As I was coming up to them I said that she might bark (I was using treats to keep her focus as I have been doing with great success). She did did stop and look at them. The man then put his hand out to stroke her and I couldn’t get the words out quick enough to say don’t touch her.

She didn’t cower or growl or bark, she immediately jumped up and bit his thumb. She didn’t cower draw blood.

I can’t have a dog that is that aggressive.
please tell me if there are any options other than euthanasia.

Thank you if you read it all. I know some details will be missing and will answer anything if I can

I'm so sad you for you op, and the pup. I don't know the answer but I'm glad you are getting some good sounding advice here.

I just want to say though, what an absolute disgrace the bloke who gave you the pup sounds. Is the homeless story feasible? Even so, if he was that concerned he could have surrendered the whole litter to a rescue rather than trying his luck trying to get a few quid out of people for his poorly bred and neglected pups from his poor bitch ☹️

Whatever happens now, it will be better than what would have happened if you weren't involved. Good luck op x

I remember a thread on here from a woman that was given a puppy similar circumstances. A DNA test revealed the puppy was part XL bully, which is very common for puppies passed off as 'Staffies'.

She had to give the young puppy up to a foster home very experienced in large bull breeds after a vet warned her that such aggression at a young age was a very bad sign, and asked her if she had young children in the home.

Completely get the isolation point you made, I found this incredibly hard. It felt like everywhere I looked there were people with ‘perfect’ dogs (which wasn’t true!). Sorry to say, the guy who put his hand out towards your dog and got bit got what he deserved. It’s a horrible lesson to learn but one he obviously needed to learn. You don’t touch dogs you don’t know without asking. Most people that do don’t mean any harm but are very naive and just don’t understand.

Sounds like you have a great plan moving forward. Having my own dog who was ‘stranger aggressive’ (but was really just petrified of people!) opened my eyes to so much. Now I realise he was just defending himself. If a stranger came up to me and touched me I’d probably lash out in a panic. All the people who love to say “my dog would never hurt a fly” have just been lucky enough to have never had their dog put in a situation that they find frightening. My OH would ‘never hurt anyone’ but I’m in no doubt if a burglar came into our home and threatened him he’d knock them out cold.

Really hope your behaviourist is lovely (and force free!) and helps you move forward. Ours was so thorough, even down to what food we fed him on. Dogs who are anxious/frightened need kindness and patience and it sounds like yours is in good hands with you ❤️

As long as puppy always wears a muzzle when out from now on I’d say give her a chance. If she’s good at home you could try some training but the poor little thing clearly had a bad start and just needs plenty of love , a vet check and a second chance.

Just seen one of your replies where you say “it’s the lack of fear she showed” and that she hadn’t barked/growled first. Our boy was the same, until we realised he wasn’t. He’d give us subtle signals like ears back, tensing, whale eye. Our behaviourist said we needed to show him that we would not be putting him in unsafe situations where he felt threatened, because that many people had ignored his subtle signals that he was unhappy that he’d basically thought “why bother growling, nobody will listen, I’ll just bite, then they’ll leave me alone”. Now as soon as his ears go back we’re out of there! He never feels the need to bite anymore because we see the tiny signs or think “that guy has a walking stick, he hates those, let’s cross the road” and listen to what he wants (which is to move away or be ignored).

Something that made me feel remotely better was looking up “learned helplessness” in dogs. Now I see it everywhere. Dogs who have had any form of aggression punished out of them (by hitting, pinning down, lots of horrid things that people do thinking they’re fixing a problem) and so tolerate absolutely everything without biting, because they know that whatever they do doesn’t matter, they will lose and be punished. From memory learned helplessness was found when an awful study put dogs in cages and gave them electric shocks. To begin with they’d struggle, panic, try to escape etc. They shocked them so many times that the dogs eventually gave up struggling because nothing they did took the pain away. They then opened the doors to the crates and when the next electric shock came hardly any of the dogs ran out of the crate, because they’d learned that whatever they did, nothing would stop the pain, so they stayed there helpless.
I was then pleased I had a snappy, bitey, growly dog, because that showed he hadn’t given up like the dogs in the study had, and still felt like he could be safe if he fought.

Ditto.

What idiot sees a puppy and thinks “oh, I’ll hover my hand above its head, really loom over, and expect some bonding moment”?!

Your messages are so lovely, thank you so much for the empathy & solidarity- it can feel hard to come by. So true about everyone else’s dogs seemingly perfect, and makes me feel so inadequate as a dog owner.
I will keep the muzzle on for all walks, and the trainer is fab- he gave me the treat training idea and that has been great (until yesterday).
T the end of the day, even though the man shouldn’t have just gone to touch her, she should definitely not be reacting like that and I’m happy to make sure she can’t again, and I do take responsibility as I knew she was not comfortable with people so I feel guilty I hadn’t muzzled her before - she had just never shown signs of biting, just barking, and the treats had stopped her doing that.
Hopefully she will only improve, I can only try my best for her. She deserves that much.

How old is the puppy? We have a lovely five year old people and dog neutral dog, who is very careful with his teeth.

Until he was about eight months old given the chance he would have bitten anyone and anything, it was his favourite sport for a long time.

She is 22 weeks old, unfortunately it’s definitely not a playful thing, she is genuinely scared. I dread to think what happened to her in her first 5 weeks of life.

I hadn’t seen this- I must’ve missed as I was replying.
That is really interesting about the subtle signs- I will definitely be reading up on that, and it’s good to read that you found it helpful.
That is so sad how they found that out though.
Hopefully with all this information from everyone I can help her. Thank you.

I don’t know how I am missing the replies, I apologise because I really appreciate all advice etc.
Yes you are right, the campsite is somewhere we have been going for years, so didn’t even question the truth behind what he was saying- maybe too gullible or trusting, I don’t know. I did feel sorry for him, he seemed ok, and the story was quite specific, but with hindsight could all have been an act.
I really wish I’d just called the rspca, I was going to until we decided to take our puppy.

This is quite worrying to read- he did volunteer the information that her dad was a Labrador, although I will never know. I am definitely going to speak to the vets and see what they say- when she had her jabs she was only so small she was fine. She looks like a staff, but it is a worry, I can’t say it hasn’t crossed my mind. Thank you.

I found the old post and checked, that poster was also told the puppy was a staffy crossed with a labrador. She described her as fiercely intelligent and easily trainable and sounded (like you) to be doing all the right things.

That sort of aggression is absolutely abnormal in a puppy, but sadly common in XL bullies and their crosses.

Your vet should be able to help, best of luck op X

First off, advocate for your dog. Tell people not to touch. You can even buy leads that say this for you.
Secondly, you need to look up biting, aggression, drive, and nipping. They are not all the same.
Thirdly, get help from a trainer experienced with bull breeds, I can highly recommend Bethany at BullBreedBehaviourists https://www.instagram.com/bullbreedbehaviourist?igsh=ZmE0M2Z2YnZjMXNv

I have just checked, and apparently DNA testing cannot identify a dog as an XL bully - it is determined by type/build etc.
I had a cocker spaniel who was frightened of strangers (I got her when she was 12 months). I used a yellow collar and lead with Nervous written on it, and kept her away from people she didn't know. My big friendly labrador helped by standing in front of her! Fortunately she absolutely loved children.

Thank you. I did google if there was a way to check, and it gave the gov website checklist, which to be honest was a bit confusing for me! I read through the different descriptions for height/face/legs etc, and definitely didn’t recognise any of them in my girl. I will be asking the trainer though, because he works at the rescue I think he will have a good idea if she is in anyway an xl.
This is so stressful, but I do appreciate everyone’s help.

This is sad. After this, I would muzzle her at all times around anyone who isn't you or your DH, as she will always present a potential risk. I would also do as others suggest and buy a lead for her that tells others to leave her alone. Poor thing

She is very young - brain / scent / agility games around the house and garden should tire her out and have a look at dog fields near you to rent for an hour. . Licky mat or a frozen kong in a safe area when visitors come over
Dogs should be trained to wear a muzzle so it isn’t a negative experience.

Take a deep breath & a couple of steps back

I agree, we re homed a Labrador years ago, and boy were we in for a shock. She didn’t bite anyone but she would go nuts and growl, mainly at men of a certain age and wearing hats. I tried all sorts and spent a fortune on different behaviourists, she did snap at one of these.

We decided to work with the baggage and warned people not to approach her, everyone thinks all labradors are friendly, not ours.

She was amazing with us her family and we decided that it was good enough for us. If we had visitors and didn’t want her to become agitated we would pop her in her cage with her toys and the radio playing softly. She was an amazing dog, just had baggage that’s all. You’ll get there, it took us about a year of hard work. All the best, 🌺

The DNA test would not say 'XL bully', but will show the dog is a mix of the breeds that were bred together to create it.

So a large dose of American pitbull, with smaller cobtributions from breeds like the cane corso, Rhodesian ridgeback, rottweiler and American bulldog.

This has just made me cry, there’s some sad fucks out there experimenting on poor defenceless animals, set of sick bastards, 🥺

Also, look at puppy development and fear stages. When mine was around 5-6 months, he suddenly spooked and ran off, in a complete panic. I couldn't work it out, then when walking back a few days later I saw him checking out the bus shelter advertisement, you know the one that spins, and he was petrified of getting close to it. Then I realised it obviously changed as we passed and it freaked him out. I had the sense to walk up to the bus stop, make happy noises like I was greeting a friend, touched the thing and he got confidence from that to walk up to it too, sniff it and decide it wasn't so scary after all.
He had a similar reaction to the roadside vinyl signs that flapped in the wind, and plastic bags. And I had to do a similar routine then too.
I'm grateful in a way his fear response is to run away, that's his nature, your pups fear response may be to bite as a defence mechanism.

This has all been very helpful, thank you again to everyone.
We have an engineer coming to the house today, unfortunately I won’t be here but DH and eldest DS (24) will be. As long as it’s not raining they will put her outside on this occasion, and then once I have the muzzle we will use that and the cage (with treats etc- we will definitely make it a positive experience).
we have had a talk with our other children, and explained that we are trying everything to help her, but there is a chance we will not be able to keep her.
They have been very understanding (upset of course but they do see what we are saying).
I will keep you updated on here if you like as and when I find out more, and please feel free to keep giving me more ideas on how to help her.

That is horrific those poor dogs used as a study 🥺

This is what we do. One of ours can be unpredictable so I make sure no one touches him. And also make sure owners of dogs know to keep their dogs away I don’t care if I come across as being rude their feelings aren’t my consideration.
He is the best dog and loves us completely and has never been any sort of risk to us so we manage him (actually other people need managing) in environments he might find stressful.

Hes never bitten anyone and I don’t believe he wants to bite anyone but in the right, or wrong, situation he might so I do what I can to make sure that doesn’t happen to him.

He’s not that big so I don’t have the fear he will kill anyone but I wouldn’t risk him being seized or put down because other people can’t control themselves and want to pet him.

Also, if he’s on a lead and I tell someone to not touch him and they do and get bitten how can they call the police and say he’s dangerous and out of control how would that work?