Which bit for my strong welsh cob? Horsey people plese help!

[lilymolly]

Hi

14.2hh Medium weight cob, pretty bomb proof, but is quite strong. He used to be in a kibblewick, but i thought this was too severe. so I changed him to a dutch gag. When he wants to be strong he puts his head nearly on the floor and shakes his head.

Teeth all checked, bridle fits etc, I think he is evading the bit and putting his head down to avoid the pressure on his mouth.

I have been advised to try a baucher bit

has anyone got any advice on this bit, or suggest an alternative?
Thanks

He may be happiest in a french link mouth piece, since they often have low palates and thick tounges. Straight-bars squish the tounge and single jointed hit the roof of their mouth.

What kind of a mouth does he have as this is very important when choosing a bit?

Have you had his saddle checked recently as that can often be the cause for evasion and not actually the bit.

the bits he has been in are all french linked.
Saddle fits well, as was proffesionally fitted last autumn.

what do you mean when you ask what mouth he has?

Does he have a low/high palate, how thick is his tongue, how much space does he actually have in his mouth to accomodate different shaped bits?

All the above will affect the action of any bit. For example my TB is parrot mouthed so finds certain bit actions very uncomfortable

gosh now you have got me thinking!

dont really know, esp when i have nothing to compare it too

Sorry not meaning to confuse you more just trying to get an idea of him.

Is he showing signs of being unhappy in the dutch gag? Do you ride with a single rein and on what ring?

I am VERY rusty on this stuff, but here goes.......... - feel free to ignore if it sounds nonsense / out of date.

I'd avoid curb and gag type bits as the poll pressure will encourage him to lower his head even more.

I think I'd play around with different mouth pieces - what's the one like a french link but stronger - is it a Dr Bristol? (scratches head....) Maybe give that a try.

But trial and error is oftent he way forward.

Or different bits for different activities? I used to hack mine in a kimblewick (I think, scratches head again) but did flatwork in a snaffle. Once the snaffle went in, he knew we were doing proper work, whereas the kimblewck was for 'fun'

single rein, bottom ring,
last night when I rode him, he was getting tetchy as we where standing talking to someone and he did a little mini rear. last time we went hunting and I tried to hold him back he did a tiny rear also, he is jogging all the time even though I am pulling on his mouth and he shakes his head when he gets excited

tried a Dr Bristol before, maybe i will go back to that.

I'd have thought a dutch gag on the bottom ring is much stronger than a kimblewick - the leverage on those things is huge.

If the kimblewick was working, go back to it.

I do agree with jojay, some horses just don't like bits with a lot of poll action and the classic way to evade this is to put their heads down, this transfers the pressure from the roof of their mouth to the sides which is a much less sensitive area.

It may well be trial and error until you can find somehing he is happy in, but I would look at something with less severe poll action

The mini rears are because he wants to move forward but be can't due to the strong bit and you holding him back, so he goes up instead - the energy has to go somewhere.

In an ideal world of course, he'd have the patience to wait until you're ready to get going, but he sounds like a bit of a livewire, so it may be best to keep him moving in a circle in those situations - you don't want to encourage the rearing!!

As for the jogging, some just will, whatever you do, but make sure you're not pulling on his mouth with a consistent pull - this just gives him something to pull back on, and you will never win that one - he's bigger than you!

Give and take all the time, pull back for a second then release for a moment. Remember, if he's jogging along all bunched up, he actually needs to lengthen his neck and stride to drop back into a walk, so give him the opportunity to do that.

Stay very relaxed and sit down heavily on him - not in a bump, but use all your weight to steady him - hope that makes sense, it's hard to explain!

Good luck!!

he his not really a live wire at all, but last night he was a bit up himself, I will not tolerate rearing at all. but usually he will stand still nicely.

so if he does not like poll action, then which bits will work with him?

I'm not an expert, but we used to have a strong pony who was in a kimblewick which we thought was too severe, put him in a vulcanite pelham instead which was much better.

forgot to mention, tried Dr Bristol, but I thought it was a touch too severe, I have bought a "boucher" bit today and will try tommorow if it stops pissing it down!

Hope it goes well with the Baucher.

For what it's worth, I felt it was often better for the horses' mouth and general comfort to go for a slightly stronger bit, than a milder one that you have to heave on.

The number of people you see hauling barbarically away at their so called 'snaffle mouthed' horses is astonishing.

I think the same principle can apply to spurs, better to use a rounded spur to give a precise aid, than thump away endlessly on some poor horse's sides.

But that only applies to riders who are sufficiently independant in their seat, who can use their hands and legs properly!!

The Baucher bit creates some poll pressure too, not as severe as a gag on the bottom ring, but be aware of it. Also did you buy a plain snaffle version or a french link one? That may affect how it works for you.
I was going to suggest some sort of pelham variety which would counteract the head dropping tendancy, but LittleB beat me to it!
Have you tried any Myler bits? Some horses go very well in them.
My only other thought is that maybe he would benefit from more schooling - so that he is more responsive to whichever bit is used.
Good luck.