HELP! Has my dog just had a stroke?

[ScarletA]

He is very old and has a bad heart. Took him across the road and back to the shops and he was very very slow. Then as we came in through the front door his back legs just went from under him. He is now up again but can't walk in a straight line and keeps walking into things. His back legs look rickety but still more or less working.

Vet is closed - only emergency vet which is a good car drive away. Afraid if we take him they will put him down in a strange place with no one he knows.

Oh dear it sounds like it. My uncles dog had the same things six months ago. He wouldn't take her to the vets for the same reasons you say he wanted her to die at home if she wasn't in pain. She is still here six months later and has a good quality of life her legs are still a bit weak. She is 16. Can you not just sit with him and see how he goes in the next few hours ?

Oh how scary - but don't assume the worst right away, it could be all sorts of things. Can you telephone vets for advice and see if you can avoid inflicting car ride on him?

scarleta my dog had heart failure and it suddenly got much worse, similarly he couldn't walk. we rushed off to vet and were given some new drugs, he got a few more weeks of life. the vet came to the house when it was time, doesn't cost much extra.

the drugs were exactly the same as my dad has, he's got heart failure too.

I've just done a google and it says that strokes are rare in dogs and that it might be something called vestibular disease - which causes some of the symptoms he's got - and it can get better. Going to sit with him and see how it goes.

Fishie - what does heart failure mean? Is it like a heart attack? And what drugs did they give your dog. Harry is on Frusemide and Benazacare for his heart.

so sorry to hear about your dog..... a good indicator of a stoke is that the eyes flicker from side to side..... there are some very good drugs now to aid blood flow and for geriactric (sp) dogs so i'm sure the vet wouldn't suggest he is put to sleep if this is not what you want.... you could always give the vet a ring to get his opinion...hope he feels better soon

no its a weakness of the heart that worsens. racking my brains for names of drugs but can't remember. yes he was def on fusemide.

here is lots of stuff, although not that useful till you have a diagnosis.

if you go to emergency vet and they say there is no hope ask whether he's in any discomfort or if they could prescribe something to get him over the weekend. then you could get usual vet to come out on monday. i do hope that doesn't happen though

He seems OK, looks a bit shaken and upset, but lying down and has stopped panting. If it was a stroke or is vestibular syndrome (both very similar symptoms) then judging by what the internet says there's very little we can do apart from quiet and TLC. I think we will just watch and wait. Don't want to take him to the vets miles away and stress him out even more. Hopefully he'll be OK till Monday when our vet is open. Does that sound an OK thing to do?

I would do that Scarlet as the journey would probably freak him out more. As long as he doesn't seem in pain but think you will have to stay with him and like you say rest and tlc, hope he is ok.

yes i think sounds fine if he isn't in pain. my dog couldn't eat much at the end, def not dog food so you might have to get out the spam or other tempting things

It sounds possibly like vestibular syndrome - a balance problem basically but often referred to as a stroke by vets as the symptoms are often quite similar. A true stroke in dogs is very rare and would not carry a good prognosis, whereas the vestibular syndrome often improves over a few days or so and they usually have minimal or no longer term effects from it. Quite typically in these cases the dog will walk to one side and it will be the same side all the time. The eyes will flicker and if you watch them carefully you will see they move fast in one direction and slower in the other. It is worth noting this down so you can tell the vet which was which if you do end up getting a check up in and day or two and those symptoms have settled a bit.
In the worst cases they can not stand unaided and they will be sick quite a bit as they feel dizzy. In these situations you should see a vet asap and get supportive care in place - iv drip to ensure fluid levels are ok etc. Most other cases can be managed at home. You may need to help them support themselves in the garden to go to the toilet etc if they struggle, and sometime you will need to hand feed as they can find it hard to get hold of the food from the bowl in some cases.

Heart failure is not a heart attack - it is the muscle of the heart failing to adequately pump blood around the body and the associated side effects of this. The drugs given are to support the heart muscle and also to minimise the side effects of failure. Weakness is however one symptom of heart failure, though bumping into things would be less common with this. If your dog has a bad heart there is a chance this has progressed onto a degree of heart failure. I would recommend a check with your vet this coming week, sooner if symptoms get any worse (coughing or rapid breathing) as medications can make a fair difference for a reasonably period of time to most of these. In any case sometimes certain treatments may be worth using before clinical signs of failure are apparent as they help support the heart that bit longer and minimise the degree of worsening.

Hope that all helps you - you can always call the vet and speak for advice about things without the obligation to have to take him in right now. So long as you do not feel he is suffering then it is fine to adopt a bit of a wait and see approach here.

oh beautifulgirls I was hoping you were there. Thank you for your advice. It's really strange because now he seems fine and is even walking in a straight line, no back leg weakness.

Re the vestibular syndrome - there was a little bit of sick on the stairs before I took him out to the shops when all this happened (got dp to clean it up while I was out - result!) but he hasn't got flicking eyes.

He was diagnosed with arthritus and spondelitus only a week or so before the heart thing was diagnosed and has been on Meloxidyl. This ran out 3 days ago and the vet told us to give it a few days before getting some more as his 'slowing down' (what we initially went to the vets for)could be to do with his heart and not really the arthritus. Do you think that might be what's happened ie his legs went and he went all squiffy because he's feeling arthritic and has seized up? He hasn't been noticeably stiff or slow over the past few days though - was chasing his tail yesterday, silly old fool.

Doesn't sound like vestibular syndrome from what you have said in your last post. Meloxidyl I think is another version of an anti-inflammatory drug we commonly use for arthritis - but I don't have my formulary to hand so can't check up on it for you. Assuming I am correct there, then I think the vet probably was asking you to see if he improved much whilst on it and if so then worth continuing with it.

It is possibly that him becoming more active however has put more stress on his heart. A borderline heart problem can be pushed over into a clinical problem when they become relatively overactive. That is not to say that they shouldn't be allowed to have a bit of fun, but that it may explain why things are worse at present. Does he cough at all? When they listened to his heart did they say he had a murmur or did they say he had a funny rhythm to his heart? A rhythm disturbance can come and go, but may account for a sudden weakness that settles a bit. Did they give him any meds at all for his heart when you were there??

I'll be online a while but pottering between threads so I'll check back soon and hopefully talk some more.

He has very bad ayrhythmia (sp) and coughs a lot though the benazacare/fruesemide combo we've got him on now has improved things. Meloxidyl (Meloxicam) is an anti-inflamatory and pain killer I think.

Right, I think probably what has happened is that he has had a particulalrly bad run with his heart rhythm and probably almost fainted as a result of the lack of blood getting around. Things probably improved either because the rhythm improved a bit or just that as he rested the demands on his body were less. Sadly the worst of these episodes can lead to death and there is unlikely anything you could do in that circumstance

I do know what meloxicam is - that is better known as Metacam which was the original version of it that was made. Should be no problems in giving that with the heart drugs you mention, unless the vet has said otherwise (due to kidney issues etc)

What to do - well, rhythm disturbances can be hard if not impossible to control well. In an ideal world if the pet is insured and/or money no problem then I would ask for your dog to be referred asap to a cardiologist to get further testing done. They can do and ECG and ultrasound, plus blood tests etc. That may give some clue as to the nature of the disturbed rhythm and may allow for additional medication to help. However, in many cases like this there is not that option open, and so it does become a bit of a hit and miss trial with medications to see if certain things can help. The risk of doing this is that the underlying cause of it is not known and just occasionally the medication can worsen rather than improve things. I do however take the attitude that if things are bad already then it is probably worth a try because giving nothing will not help and you have a calculated chance with other meds. The ones I would normally turn to in this situation would be beta blockers. Your vet will have to see what they have available and decided if they feel in this situation this is a sensible choice though. It is worth asking about them however.

Today - well, just keep him quiet is probably the single most useful thing to do. Rest will put far less demands on his heart in the first place and allow it to have the best chance to settle. I would get him back to the vet on Monday and talk things through more and see what they can offer and what you would like to take up in terms of investigations if any.

Good luck

Thank you - what you say sounds right. We were offered all the ECG stuff but declined because he is very old for a big dog (14,very tall lurcher x collie) and if his heart is old, then it's old and there doesn't seem much point in doing all these tests which would be uncomfortable and stressful just to prolong his life by a few weeks/months. Our thing is just to make him comfortable in his last few months (hence the frusemide/ benazacare/ codeine linctus for the coughing) and when the time is right and he doesn't seem to be enjoying himself anymore (we're using the tail chasing as a pointer)then we'll get the vet over to do the deed. This may be on Monday. Swallows hard.

Thank you for all your time on this, really appreciate it.

scarleta hope your dog is feeling better today.... beautifulgirls you have given such brilliant advice... i was wondering if you could suggest a diet for my 1yr old dog who has got pancreatitus and inflammation of the intestines... she is on lypex (for the pancreas) and prednisilone ... i've tried chicken/ rice fish/potatoes she's been on hills i/d and have just ordered royal cannin low fat so will be trying her on that next week... so far i haven't managed to find a food that she can cope with and am at my wits end as the poor thing is soooo skinny and constantly starving.. i'm not sure how long her body can cope with her problems.. luckily she's never had any pain and is still happy and playful.. this has been going on for about 6 months now with not one normal poo ... somedays she does soft one,s (slightly formed) and others it's just liquid.. sorry to ask but i'm so worried my vet is good but i/'m in Spain and my Spanish is crap so it's hard to really go into alot of detail with him....

Difficult one mum2mum as much of what you have already tried is what I would suggest for pancreas issues. Perhaps it would be worth a trial on another hills food called Z/D ultra which is hypoallergenic and seeing if that helps. It is however VERY expensive compared to the other hills foods. If however it works at least if then gives you a safe base to work forwards from to do diet trials of other foods and fall back on if things start to go wrong. There may be more going on here than just what the vet has diagnosed so far if she is not responding to the treatment properly. Also worth considering is probiotic powder (we use protexin soluble) to help keep a healthy gut flora present, and perhaps for short term flare ups if you can get hold of protexin paste that can help make the faeces more solid (via kaolin I think) and contains live bacteria too.

A faecal sample check if not done recently would be a good idea just to make sure there is not any additional obvious problems since the last time this was done.

thanks for the advice beautifulgirls..i'll deffinatly give the z/d a try if the royal cannin doesn't work... she does take something like Kaolin but not sure if it contains live bacteria, will check this out (have tried natural youghurt when she's been bad though ) don't mind how much it all cost's at the moment so i'll try anything but would have to play around with other diets when she's put some weight on and her poo's back to normal.. was going to try tripe and pigs pancreas to see if she can do without the lypex as it's really expensive..thanks again for the advice..

To all those who have helped me with this over the last few weeks,

Harry was able to get up and walk after his episode but he looked so miserable - there was no more tail chasing or even walking about much, he just looked like he'd had enough. It was awful but we decided that it was time.

We are both sure he knew what was going to happen and did not object. He didn't get up when the vet and nurse came to the house on Monday afternoon, did not flinch when the injection was put in his arm and died quietly with his head in my lap.

I am utterly, utterly heartbroken. He was my constant companion for the last eight years and has seen me through the most momentous changes in my life. I will always remember his joy for life and his gentle humility and cannot imagine what I will do without him. But without him I must.

Everyone has been amazing and I am sure I will start to feel less of the raw, more of the numb over the next few weeks.

Thank you, all of you, for how you helped.

Awwww, I'm so sorry

My dog is very old - I came close to making that choice for her last Oct but thankfully she responded very well to treatment at that time and is still with me. I know it is a matter of time until I have to go there though. I feel for you.

My dog has suffered 3 episodes of vestibular syndrome within the last 6 months, the first one happened at 2am, I was woken by a loud bang I got upto investigate and found Charlie his eyes could not focus and twitched from side side erratically, his head tilled to the left hand side. His legs wobbled and he kept falling over. He looked so lost.

I called the vets on their emergency number and explained what had happened and as was told to wait till the morning. I sat up the rest of the night as I honestly thought once the surgery had opened the vet would come to my home and tell me it was time to say goodbye.

Charlie just laid still, he did one or twice try and move, although I'm sure that was only because I left the room to get something.

When the vet came at 11am, as soon as she walked into to the room he climbed extremely wobbly off the couch and stumbled towards her as if to say look I can still walk. After examining him she advised me it was a stroke and there was medication she could offer but he could possibly improve over the next 3 days, she also advised that is was my choice if I wanted to put him to sleep.

I choose not let him go to sleep and to give him the opportunity to improve and improve he did lucky he was still a bit wobbly but we put that down to arthritis.

On Christmas Eve he suffered a small attack where he seemed disoriginated, but there was know eye twitching or any of the other symptoms.

Sunday I received a call from my Dad to say I needed to come home as Charlie was ill. When I arrived home Charlie had all of the symptoms that occurred the first time.

I've slept on couch for last two nights and again Charlie seems to be improving very slowly and even thinks he can go for a walk, even though he can't yet as he's still stumbling. In respect of toilet habits he lets me know when he needs to go out don't get me wrong in the first hours few orders there was accidents but these have stopped now.

I just felt the need to write down my experience.