Bothered long-term by suspected destruction of Newfoundland

[Moralitym1n1]

This is a retrospective one.

Myself and ex partner have been finished for several years now, but I saw him recently and it revived me thinking about the issue.

During the relationship he apparently rejoined a young Newfoundland dog his son had asked for when it was (I think) less than a year old or perhaps a year at the most after it opened its mouth over/around a child (in a buggy's) head.

When I say opened its mouth, i mean literally that - it didn't bite, nip, close it's jaws (though I suppose it may have had I not yanked it away). I felt at fault because I didn't realise it would do anything like that and had it in a loose lead, it turned it's head into the buggy and did that as we walked past.

He 'rehomed' it soon after, he said the new owners were ok with a visit so I asked continuously if we could visit but he refused to and said he felt too bad about it and couldn't. I didn't understand why, if he felt so bad, he wouldn't take the opportunity to check on the dog in its new home.j gave up asking after numerous attempts with the same response, but always felt uneasy about it.

I have since come to the conclusion, after the relationship finished and I discovered quite s lot of dishonesty and disingenuous-ness that he actually had the dog put down. If fits with the extremely black and white nature of his thinking (another thing that ended the relationship).

The dog had zero training (apart from the most minor stuff by his 12/13 year old son) and no canine company. It was a source of conflict between us because it was in the yard on its own a lot.

I've since read they're 'mouthy' and believe it was not aggressive in what it did (though I understand damage could still have been done).

I've come to the conclusion that he had the dog out down in a couple of 'steps' in the time since then - the first if which was discussing the situation with a work colleague (who's extremely fund of dogs) and his reaction to the "I don't want to visit the dog in his new home because its too upsetting, I feel too bad,bi just feel so bad about it" response to my every request to visit it. He said he found it very very strange and it didn't make any sense (which I'd always thought - especially since he's said it had gone to a great new home and the owners said call by anytime".

He (the work colleague) implied there wax more to it and when I thought about the whole thing holistically - the dishonesty and disingenuous behaviour I'd discovered, the extreme viewpoints in things; it struck me that that was what he'd probably done.

He couldn't accede to anybody my requests to visit because there was no longer a dig to visit, it was lies and he'd tripped himself up with his story about how good the new owners were in saying they he could call by and see the dog if he wanted.

*any of my requests

Well, yes, I would.

There wouldn't really be time to ponder if the dog was hungry/stupid/untrained when he was ripping a child's face off. It's kind of a one-time thing.

Estrella - that's not the scenario I'm asking for opinions on here.

I'm asking if you had something unnerving happen like that, perhaps a near miss .. would you try to find an owner who knows the breed very wellvto take on the dog, explain what happened no holds barred etc. or would you just destroy the dog?

Would you give the dog, puppy really, no second chance or training etc. out of that incident or would you just kill it?

(knowing that that behaviour is related to the breed and the dog hasn't had the training if should have).

We're not talking a dangerous breed here, bug one that's known to need knowledgeable management due to its size and tendencies.

Fine. You wanted to keep a dog that had a kid's head in its mouth. I would make a different choice.

I can't be bothered to argue this with you, as you're so convinced of your view.

Just a thought: There are far, far worse fates for animals than to be humanely put to sleep.

If that is what indeed happened, then possibly it was a better outcome for the dog than being passed from pillar to post into unknown homes, never feeling properly secure or relaxed?

How was he coping with the dog prior to the incident? The only people I’ve ever known with Newfoundlands were owners dedicated to the breed. I know they’re not by nature vicious dogs, but they are a high needs giant breed, miles away from your average family type dog. What I’m getting at was the incident the last straw and he took it as a way out of keeping the dog? If that was the case he may have gone for the easiest out and had the dog destroyed rather than take the time and trouble to try other avenues first.

I suppose I'm using mn as a type of therapy; dealing with this for me involves getting a wide range of viewpoints and seeing what the consensus is.

That's absolutely fine and you must do what works for you, so the following isn't a criticism. I just wanted to point out that getting a range of viewpoints years after the event appears to be a way of prolonging the dwelling and overthinking rather than changing that behaviour. Is your aim to arrive at a settled conclusion and thus clear it from your mind? The thing is, by getting the consensus of what everyone else thinks, you're not really finding out or accepting what you think, which is the important thing.

*Fine. You wanted to keep a dog that had a kid's head in its mouth. I would make a different choice.

I can't be bothered to argue this with you, as you're so convinced of your view.*

I'm not actually, I was just trying to give you the full picture and explain my thinking .. I'm asking for opinions and I'm taking on board all opinions. I appreciate your input.

*Just a thought: There are far, far worse fates for animals than to be humanely put to sleep.

If that is what indeed happened, then possibly it was a better outcome for the dog than being passed from pillar to post into unknown homes, never feeling properly secure or relaxed?*

You make a valid point, I suppose I have an ideal that a dog finds a good home,but that's not always the case at all. I still feel intensely uncomfortable about a very young healthy dig being out down (especially because it's behaviour seems to have been mismanaged/not anticipated due to ignorance).

(plus I feel a lot of dogs live in the moment and get happiness out if very little, so maybe their happy times outweigh bad times even if their home is not ideal (not talking abusive/properly bad here obviously).

How was he coping with the dog prior to the incident? The only people I’ve ever known with Newfoundlands were owners dedicated to the breed. I know they’re not by nature vicious dogs, but they are a high needs giant breed, miles away from your average family type dog. What I’m getting at was the incident the last straw and he took it as a way out of keeping the dog? If that was the case he may have gone for the easiest out and had the dog destroyed rather than take the time and trouble to try other avenues first.

Not well but not v badly either.

The dog was kept on its own in the yard, which I thought was unfair.

It was walked by the son, who wanted it and by us when I visited every weekend.

It was breaking out sometimes.

He felt the son was beginning to become lax in looking after it, as he'd promised to.

But to me all that just adds to the fact have should have rehomed to an experienced owner.

The decision to get a (as you say) high needs dog was an irresponsible,various one. The way they tried to keep it was foolish (on own, no training,no work, no real effort to find out about the breed and treat it accordingly), I feel like killing it for the 'near miss' was the final but if irresponsibility and stupiditity inflicted on an innocent animal.

*stupid not various

• Bit of irresponsibility

Also having a dog out down because it's faster and easier and less effort than exploring alternatives is, to me, even worse than doing it because if a simplistic, black and white "all dogs who do something bad around children must be destroyed immediately!!!" ( Even if there was no aggression and we should've known better than to let an untrained giant young Newfie near a small child in the first place).

Is your aim to arrive at a settled conclusion and thus clear it from your mind? The thing is, by getting the consensus of what everyone else thinks, you're not really finding out or accepting what you think, which is the important thing.

Yes.

I know what I think, but sometimes hearing what a range of people think can be really helpful, and can alter or at least ameliorate your thoughts on something.

I mean, we don't know what happened. But private rehomings are dodgy as fuck - yes, they can work out well, but there are some bastards out there. Your big, soft dog could have ended up passed from pillar to post, or worse, abused or used as bait in a dog fight. So that would have been a massive risk to take.

A rescue centre would have been safer but then you have the problem of rehoming a large untrained dog, which could not possibly be rehomed to a situation where it would be in contact with small children. So you're looking at months or maybe even years in kennels there, or alternatively euthanasia anyway, depending on the rescue's policy.

So rehoming would not have been a straightforward process, or a guaranteed happy ending.

I've worked in equine rescue and worked alongside plenty of all-animal charities as part of that, and so I can be very firm in saying that euthanasia is absolutely not the worst thing that could have happened here.

Eg the point about the difficulty of finding a decent home has affected my viewpoint somewhat - perhaps he felt that he couldn't lie by omission about the child incident (and I would never have agreed to that either) but if he was honest, it might be v difficult to find a decent new home for the dog.

worse, abused or used as bait in a dog fight.

That was exactly what I was worried about when I repeatedly asked him for us to visit the dog in its supposed new home, I read about it online and that's one of the main reasons for the uneasiness & frustration I felt when he kept making excuses and refusing to follow through.

I didn't see the way forward for rehoming as a standard home/rescue scenario, I felt a specialist owner of Newfies/at Bernards/Bernese would have to be found - and I would've been willing to out in work to do so.

That of try to persuade breeder to accept the dog back.

*or