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Original poster

Where are the resident dog experts?

22 replies

SparklyfestiveYellowFeathers · 20/11/2006 10:39

My BIL and SIL have a problem and just wanted to see if any dog experts on here had any advice before they make a mistake.

OP posts:
Original poster
SparklyfestiveYellowFeathers · 20/11/2006 11:03

bump

OP posts:
MrsDoolittle · 20/11/2006 11:04

What problem?

Original poster
SparklyfestiveYellowFeathers · 20/11/2006 11:13

Oooh fab, hope you can help a bit.
To cut a long story short, they had 3 dogs. 2 that my SIL had before she met my BIL and then they bought one together.
Earlier this year they rehomed a stray that they found collapsed at the school they work at.
Every thing has been fine but about 4 weeks ago him and the other new dog had a horrendous fight. They've had 4 more since and another at the weekend.
They are really bad fights too, they are both covered in cuts and holes!

They had the stray castrated 3 weeks ago and were told it takes 4 weeks for the testosterone to leave their body but Bil is really worried as they fought again yesterday.
They are talking about rehoming the stray which seems a shame. The other dog seems to be getting no blame for it, yet its him thats the most vicious.

Just wanted to see if anyone could give some advice before they make a rash decision.

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FioFio · 20/11/2006 11:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

MrsDoolittle · 20/11/2006 11:21

There are a number of issue here.
Dogs are pack animals and it's normal for this kind of behaviour.
Basically the dogs are trying to sort out an order of superiority.
If the stray was an entire dog (I gather it was) as soon as he became accustomed to his surrounding he would naturally start to assume position of top dog.
Of course the dogs that your SIL and BIL have already have this sorted amongst them.
I am assuming that it is the superior dog of your SIL and BIL that is fighting with the stray??

Basically the dogs need to be separated for a while but without very confident and assertive handling from the owners this may never sort itself out.

Original poster
SparklyfestiveYellowFeathers · 20/11/2006 11:28

Well the original 2 are bitches and the 3rd dog they got is a dog. He's a cross between a rotweiller and staffie too.
They a re very confident with them but when they fight you cannot seperate them as the x rot/staffie has lock jaw.

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Original poster
SparklyfestiveYellowFeathers · 20/11/2006 11:30

There so worried too because they are going away to get married next month and SIL's dad is looking after them. They really want to sort it out before they go so that it doesnt happen while they arent there.

They fought when my dh and I were there and it took 3 of us to seperate them after 5 mins of struggling. At the end of it my SIL had been bitten on her leg and BIL's finger had been chomped but they couldnt figure out which one had done it as it was such a mess.

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Ellbell · 20/11/2006 11:32

Hi YellowFeathers
I had a similar problem earlier this year. Unfortunately I couldn't sort it out and the new dog had to be rehomed. It is definitely a dominance issue. Your BIL and SIL need to decide who is to be 'top dog' and then reinforce that rigorously. Top dog must get fed first, go through doors first, get to choose where he sleeps, etc. Even if the new dog is not the one intiating the fighting, the castration may work long-term. The other dogs will stop perceiving him as a 'male' and should sort of 'factor him out' of the dominance issue. (At least, that was the case with my late lamented castrated male... in fact, male dogs often tried to hump him and he even stopped cocking his leg to wee!)

However, I think your BIL and SIL need to be prepared for it not to work out. The pattern of fighting may already be set, and it's not that easy to un-learn it. When my two dogs fought it was so scary that I simply didn't feel I could take the risk of it happening again and had to get the new dog out of the house. Still feel very sad about it, though.

Sorry not to be more help. If there is a dog training club near your BIL and SIL they may be able to help with the dominance thing.

Ellbell · 20/11/2006 11:37

Link to thread about what happened to me

Original poster
SparklyfestiveYellowFeathers · 20/11/2006 11:42

It is very sad as the stray is such a lovely dog and was obviously treated badly in his previous home. He was soo skinny and poorly.
They've been trying the top dog thing. The other dog gets all the treatment first. Like you said. Food first, in the car first, in the door first etc.

I'll read your thread ellbell

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Original poster
SparklyfestiveYellowFeathers · 20/11/2006 11:44

thats exactly what has been happening ellbell. Very horrific to see. I was shaking the next day after I saw it.

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MrsDoolittle · 20/11/2006 11:46

God don't put yourselves between fighting dogs You need a bucket of water.

Original poster
SparklyfestiveYellowFeathers · 20/11/2006 11:52

Well at the time, my dh had the stray, BIL had the other dog (punching it too and it made not one ounce of difference) and SIL in the middle. Dh was screaming at us to get some water but by the time it registered with any of us we managed to seperate them.

I certainly dont trust them near the children anymore.

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MrsDoolittle · 20/11/2006 11:57

There is no quicl answer for this and I'm sorry to say but I do think this would be a huge responsibilty to hand over to anyone else. The dogs should go to separate places while your SIL and BIL are away.
Why don't they ask a rehoming centre for help? They are used to this kind of thing. This really requires a dog handler IMO.
Dogs fighting is terrifying to watch.

MrsDoolittle · 20/11/2006 11:59

Once they start fighting another person hitting them isn't going to stop them. If you think about it, they are biting each other and drawing blood. Another person punching them isn't going to make a difference or stop it happening.

Original poster
SparklyfestiveYellowFeathers · 20/11/2006 12:13

Yes your right. I was going to offer but I cant run the risk as we have a dog and they ccould do it to him or worse the children.

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2labs · 20/11/2006 13:08

sparkly - this is not the best place to get detailed behavioural advice for such a potentially serious problem, however helpful people try to be. It is not always obvious which should be 'top dog' and if your SIL and BIL make a mistake they will only make things worse. I think they either need to get a good behaviourist in (not the likes of Barkbusters but one whose name crops up a lot when they ask round vets etc, or chosen from the APDT website for example) or else rehome one of the dogs. It will cost them (unless they have insurance that covers behaviour problems) to get a prof behaviourist in, but I do think this is one of those situations that requires an expert to observe and can't be done safely on the web. Good luck to your ILs.

MrsDoolittle · 20/11/2006 13:11

I think 2labs has said it all really

magnolia1 · 20/11/2006 13:19

2labs has said it exactly!! There is no one on here that can offer the right advice to such a potentially dangerous situation. An adpt trainer is needed asap, and whoever said 4 weeks for testosterone to leave the sytem is talking nonsence it can take anywhere fromn 3-6 months!!
I would certainly not let anyone else take care of the dogs together and I would keep them seperate at home at all times for now.
Hope it works out xxx

feellikehavingadig · 20/11/2006 21:04

Not surprised to see 2labs here. Am surprised at the absence of DawnyBabe though. They're the MN resident dog experts, are they not?

2labs · 20/11/2006 22:42

I'm no expert! Just have a lifelong obsessive interest in dogs... Hence the advice to get a pro in.

bottomlessburp · 20/11/2006 23:34

definately agree with 2labs, this needsa veterinary behaviourist,good luck.

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