advice please !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nikie1]

i have a german shepherd bitch she is 6month's old and just came into season
what age should i let her mate?

Hmm, now I've had my bitch spayed, but from speaking to people who are planning to have pups, leave it until she's a couple of years old if you can. 6 months is too young.

Not before the age of two - she will not be able to get her hips and elbows scored before 12 months (she will also need to be BVA eye-tested prior to mating). You should spend the next year or so researching her pedigree and making sure that she is breeding quality. It will take you sometime to find a suitable stud that will complement her without doubling up on her faults (make sure the stud is haemophilla tested).

Nikie1,

You should be able to find more breed specific info from one of the German Shepherd breed clubs. Most people advise waiting till around 2 years old, or at least their third season. Just remember though, breeding is not for the faint hearted,it can be costly, it is time consuming and you need to be aware that you could be called upon at anytime in the pups life to take it back (as a responsible breeder you should always wish to keep in contact with the owners of you puppies. The book of the bitch is very good on all aspects of ownership and breeding, it is highly recommended by most people that read it. You also need to research the right stud dog for your bitch, not necessarily the one that is closest to you.

Just remember that it is an old wives tale that bitches need to have a litter, there is no physiological reason at all.

Out of interest why would you be breeding from your bitch?

I second what Tillypup said - The Book of the Bitch is a must read, the breeder's Bible. Have you been in touch with your girls breeder to let them know of your plans. Reputable breeder will want to know if any dogs in their line are being bred from and if they approve of the planned breeding will give you plenty of support throughout the process. It is alway great to have someone experienced on hand to help both for the mating and whelp. They will also be able to recommend a suitable stud and will know what lines to avoid.

A good breeder will also be honest with you regarding your bitches suitablity for breeding, if they think that she is not breeding quality then they will tell you - reputable breeders will only want the best dogs from their lines bred from. It could save you time and money if you find out early on her suitability for breeding.

Also, contact the breed clubs for a list of stud dog owners, and spend some time going along to the shows to see the dogs in the flesh - it's a great day out.

thankyou for all your advice,one of the reasons i am gonna mate her is so she can be a mother.who am i to say she cant have pups, and i'm gonna have her done then
i hope you didnt all think i was gonna mate her now!!!
no way she is not only a pet she is my baby i've not had her long she had been ill treated by her last owner's this is why i've had her (she is stunning )when on our walk today i met a breeder and she told me all about breeding her so i know now but thanks anyway xxnikie

Hi Nikie, before you breed her you will have to research her pedigree to make sure that none of her ancestors had hereditary problems, you must also have her hip-scored, elbow scored and eye-tested (a once over by the vet is not good enough). If you do not take all reasonable steps to ensure that the pups are healthy and do not inherit genetic defects then theoretically you could be sued by the pups new owners.

Having pups can be very dangerous for bitches, it is not unusual for mother and pups to die during whelp. If she is not an outstanding representation of the breed, and therefore adding positively to the GSD gene-pool, then I would have her neutered - but the decision is yours . Rescues are packed full of German Shepherds, that is why the Breed Clubs recommend only breeding from dogs that are of exceptional quality, health and temperament, whose background and ancestory are well-reputed. I would never breed from a bitch whose ancestory is unknown (I'm not sure if this is the case with your girl).

Most reputable breeder research for years before breeding their first bitch. Breeding is not something that is learned overnight. You have at least a year and a half to gain the knowledge you will need to raise a healthy litter. Good Luck

hiya, my bitch is a full pedigree and i have all her papers aswell. they go right back to her great great grand parents also we have spent over £400 pound's on vet bills because she was i'll treated we had to have her looked at and she is perfect hopefully she will be ok thankyou for the advice
i already have her stud as my best friend has got a male dog the same age who is also full pedegree we are gonna join training soon anyway so i will keep you all posted on how we get on

"one of the reasons I am going to mate her is so she can be a mother".

Dogs do not experience motherhood in the same way we do, they have pups, when those pups are 8 weeks old they go to new homes - if that dog met her pup 6 months down the line she would not know it was her offspring. If she never has a litter of puppies she will not know any differently - honestly.

Tbh I would think carefully before deciding to breed her. Having puppies can be an expensive business - can you afford to keep up to 10 puppies? are you sure you will be able to find good homes for them all? Are you home full time, because if you're not a litter of puppies will do an awful lot of damage while you're out, and once they're old enough to start weeing/poohing/destroying your house.

There's no way I would want the responsibility of having to find homes for puppies, and not being 100% sure that they would go to good homes - rescue centres are full of unwanted/abandoned/mistreated puppies that were sold to people in good faith.

i would second all the poeple who have suggested you get her hip scored and elbow scored etc. And the other dog needs these checks too.
Hip and elbow dysplasia are very painful problems that can be [passed onto the next generation by semmingly "normal" parents.

I ahve worked for animal charities for 17yrs and very aware of the enormous aount of dogs that need homes.
Your dog doesn't need to have puppies, she needs to have the love and care that you are giving to her- that is all

I always ask people to have a look round battersea dogs' home before they really decide to breed their pet.

Taking from experience I would say please don't breed her There are far too many unwanted dogs and puppies are so overbred now that even with full pedigrees Dogs are not as healthy as they should be. German shephards have terrible hip problems and even with good hip and eye scores they can have puppies with problems.

It is definately not a good way to make money either. An emergency c section and after care costs huge amounts of money and looking after 5-10 puppies for at least 8 weeks is a huge commitment and very hard work.
My staffie had puppies in June (not a planned breeding!) and although she was a great dog before being a mum and is still a great dog 'Letting her be a mother' has not changed her at all. I had her spayed when pups were 8 weeks and it was the best thing for her and me!! She had 6 puppies and looking after 6 puppies was the hardest thing I have ever done.

Nickie1, have a look at this

and this

I agree with the comparison of responsible breeders and backyard breeders, however, I don't think it's entirely necessary to be involved in the 'dog world' to be a responsible breeder. Some people just aren't into all that, but as long as they know what they're doing when it comes to breeding, and are responsible about it, then that's good, surely?

You may be right PFTG, but I suppose the question is, if you're not involved in the 'dog world' for example showing or working, who is going to be the judge of your dog's quality apart from you? They are ways in which a lot of experts can give a view. But I guess there are other ways of doing that - just that's the usual way.

What about cross breeds, mongrels? I have an old collie cross (part german shepherd), I don't think she's got long left now, you can see my other thread about her becoming senile. We wouldn't be without a dog and will get a puppy soon after shes gone. (I know rescue dogs are great, I've had 2, but wouldn't get one with a young dd and they wouldn't let me have one anyway). We'd rather have a cross breed as they generally live longer healthier lives, and I'm not into showing etc, just want a happy healthy active dog. Any tips on the best place to get one from when we start looking? And would you say all mongrels are from irresposible breeders as they are obviously not looking out for the breed!
Sorry to hijack the thread but it seemed appropriate.

littleb - can I just say that I own two crossbreeds (despite my name - they are lab x goldies), bred by Guide Dogs (they have found they have a higher success rate on the whole). So I am not dissing mongrels at all!

But it's a myth that crosses are automatically healthier. For example if a mongrel has a parent with heart problems it's just as likely to inherit them as a 'purebred' dog. One of my dogs was rejected by Guide Dogs on health grounds (an eye defect). My views stem purely from the huge dog overpopulation problem - we need to be breeding far fewer dogs, so it makes sense for breeding to be planned and regulated. The only reason I advocate pups from people who show or work their dogs is that it is currently the best (the only!) system we have. I am all for crossbreeding where it serves a purpose, but not for fashion and not just for the sake of it. There are more than enough mongrels being euthanised every day (I worked in an animal shelter for years and 8-week-old pups were regularly put to sleep purely for lack of homes), so why add to their number? Apart from rehoming I can't think of a 'good' place to get a crossbreed I'm afraid... though open to other possibilities.

LittleB, Agree with everything 2labs has said! If you get a reputable breeder who has had the dogs health tested there should be no reason for a pure bred to be any less healthy than a cross breed. When it comes to getting a puppy there is a lot to be said for 1) doing some research, 2) trusting your instinct. Do the research into the type of breed that would suit your life and any potential health problems they may have/what tests they should have had. Trust your instincts when you visit the breeder and pups, always see the mother, and father if they are owned by the breeder, find out how many litters the breeder has, you can also tell a lot by how much the breeder questions you, do they seem to care where their puppies are going or are they only interested in getting your money.

The trend for "designer" crosses seems to be getting worse and worse and the breeders of "cocker-poos", "labradoodles" etc etc seem to only have one thing in mind, money. I don't have anything against crossbreeds, but do get a bit fed up with hearing that they are healthier than purebreds, as 2labs said, it all depends on the parentage.

Nikie1, I think you are being incredibly niave in your thinking.At the end of the day almost everyone will think that their dog is perfect and without an objective outside view who is there to disagree. Just because your friend has another dog of a similar age (and is close by)does not mean it would be the best one to breed with. Do you think you can just let them have a romp around a field togther when the time is right (would you know when the time is right?) they will "fall in love" and do their business and a few weeks later there will be some fluffy puppies to play with?

Even if you don't want to show or work your bitch if you at least get involved with your breed club you will gain more knowledge about your breed which can only be a good thing?

Cross breeds are generally healthier, well they are less likely to suffer from hereditory diseases such as arthritus, back problems, hip displaysia, eye problems, heart problems etc. Genetics is the reason why (I have a biology degree) The reason we have pedigree breeds is down to inbreeding, breeders selecting the traits they desire, some breeds are known to be prone to certain diseases and breeding to a breed standard encourages breeding like with like, therefore this often helps genetic diseases to stay within the population, even though there are good breeders who wouldn't breed a dog with, for example, a bad hip score, there are plenty who would.
Of course a crossbreed can inherit a problem from a parent, but its more likely if both parents could carry the gene.
I'm not after a designer crossbreed, just a healthy dog.(and in my experience the healthiest and longest living dogs I've known have all been crossbreeds).
2labs, I'm shocked that you worked in a rescue centre where they put to sleep any healthy animals, particularly pups, I know my local rescue centres have no trouble rehoming young healthy dogs. They actually import them by the van load from wales to rehome (I'm in Somerset).
When the time comes for us to look for a dog, I think we'll just ask around locally, I'll probably start with my local vets.

Dr George Padgett (canine geneticist) would beg to differ, littleB. That is he would if he hadn't died a couple of years ago. 'Hybrid vigour' as applied to dogs simply does not exist. See this

I am afraid you would be even more shocked if you knew how many more centres put down healthy dogs. The reason your local rescue brings puppies from Wales (another common practice when a rescue finds it has a space) is not because there is some nationwide shortage of puppies - it is because the problem in Wales is even worse, because of the prevalence of puppyfarming there, much of it now government-funded (but that's a gripe for another day...).

Please, if you feel you "must" breed your bitch, make sure that you have vetted homes waiting and seek the advice of a professional breeder regarding a suitable bloodline to breed with.
It is my personal opinion that there are too many unwanted dogs around already.
I personally have rehomed two dogs who were 'too much' for their previous owners.
My border collie bitch came to me at 9 months old and was spayed before her first season.
Would you like a pup you bred to go to a home like the one your bitch came from??
I do not believe that bitches need to be bred from to be happy