Should dogs automatically be rehoused if they go for a child?

[nothercules]

no matter what the background is? What do you think?

thanks again.

So sorry to hear this nothercules , especially about your little boy crying himself to sleep. I haven't got any advice as I'm not a dog owner, but I sympathise with your predicament. It must be awful .

I had kinda hoped posters would jump up and down outraged that I was even asking such a question and of course he has to go. It makes it harder when there's no abuse!!

You should know we are all reasonable, sympathetic, level headed individuals who would never ever abuse someone reaching out for our help

lol

IF you want i can be all hard line etc.. but i would then be talking out of my bottom.

I think you and hubby need to keep thinking about it. Sounds like you are doing all the right things.

Sorry that both you and your lo had such a scare. to be honest I go along with the fact that the dog was defending its food. It's a natural reaction. I have read that dogs can be taught very gently by a dog therapist if you like to give up the pack instinct. I'm lucky that I somehow manage to teach my dog to allow people to take food of it that it had don't ask me home. Try training first please and above all follow the good advise given never let anyone interfer with a dog and its food. Especially not a child. Contact the rspc they should be able to point you in the right direction for training.

bump for morning.

i'm feeling more positive this morning about him but still need honest opinions please.

OK, you have only had the dog for 3 months. Do you know his previous history? Has he been neutered?

We took in a rescue dog just over 3 years ago, when he was about 3 years old. Knew nothing of his history, just that he had been abandoned. There were a few issues at first, where he clearly thought he ranked above the children in the household heirarchy. We did some training and he now knows that he is below not only the children, but also the cats, rabbits and guineapigs!

He will still occasionally show that he is unhappy by curling his lip, but the boys all know now that this is a sign that he is not comfortable with whatever they are doing (he has difficulty with loud noises, which is rather ironic in this house!) and they back off and leave him alone.

I'm not 100% sure he would never hurt them, but you cannot be 100% certain with any dog. My previous dog was the most wonderful dog ever. She was 5 years old when DS1 was born and, having been treated as my substitute baby prior to that, I anticipated huge problems. There was none and she was very protective of the children, but I would still not trust her 100%, because dogs are unpredictable and do not live by or interpret rules the way we do.

I think that, as you are now aware of a potential problem, work on that area very intensely, establish where the dog comes in the pack - things like when you have been out for a walk, always ensure the dog is the last one to come through the door; don't allow the dog upstairs, but make sure he sees the children going up there (alpha dogs get the higher ground because it's drier); when you come into the house, ignore dog until you have made a fuss of the children and then only when he isn't demanding attention; always feed him last and make sure he sees this.

I can understand your worries and I had similar when we got our dog, but, unless you have a dog from a puppy, there are always going to be uncertainties regarding how they will react to certain situations. Even then, no dog is 100% predictable.

why not get a second opinion from a behavourist?

Thanks. In most respects he is lower down the pack.
We have a stair gate so he cannot go upstairs - ever
We always go through the door before him
We always eat before him
He is never allowed on the furniture and at night has no access to the lounge
we always greet the children first
my daughter can easily hold a treat in her hand and make him sit and lie and then give the treat when she is ready

Dh is convinced it was a combination of the wheat in his food and us being lax about the two of them together and him having a bone.

Dh met a dog behaviourist in the park yesterday and she agreed it could be the wheat.

The woman I spoke to on the phone knows my breed of dog well and was recommended by my breed club.

hercules, have you posted on the forum 2labs recommended? They are very experienced there.
However, my main problem is that giving advice about how the children should behave is not much use when they're too little to understand.

My dog (golden retriever, similar temperament to yours supposedly) does this too - he's only 12 weeks old now though but I've emailed a behaviourist to come out for a home visit. He's wild and aggressive at times with the children but good with dh and I, and it's getting beyond being a nuisance now.

Terrible as it sounds - if we hadn't already spent close to £1K on him already since getting him I'd probably have tried to rehome him by now. I feel like a failure.

Anyway - this isn't much help, huh? Just wanted to let you know you're not the only one out there... :(

Oh, and when I was a child/teenager we had a hungarian sheepdog bitch who was very protective of her food and horribly territorial. She never bit me but growled at me plenty whenever she had a bone and I happened to be passing. It was all show.

I think there's something about bones. They do seem to get much more precious about them than their normal food - perhaps because it's a treat.

To be honest, I don't give my dog bones. I tend to buy the rawhide chews - much less mess for a start.

When it comes to treats (other than just the odd biscuit here and there), I would ensure that the dog is somewhere isolated so that there is no danger of him thinking anyone is going to try to deprive him of it.

You didn't say if he was neutered. This can reduce any aggressive tendencies, although it is not totally guaranteed. What breed is he?

I agree about bones - might it be because they last a long time - they have time to form a "bond" with them? most other food is gone in 2 minutes

Yes, we got him castrated about a month ago.

I dont remember 2labs posting another forum. i'll readback.

It can take several months for the castration to affect the level of hormones. It may be that, in another couple of months, he will have calmed further.

I do think, though, that it was more the issue of the bone than anything else. When I used to give mine a bone, I made sure he was shut in the garden where the children couldn't bother him.

ours has bitten the children when he's been chewing on the brush from the dustpan & brush set and also when he had a rawhide chew. :(
Yesterday dd2 sat down next to him and tried to stroke his head whilst he had the brush, and he bit her hand hard enough to draw blood. She does not take toys off him.
His only saving grace at the moment is that he's just 12 weeks old.

Herc, I wouldn't have a dog in the first place, so my opinion might not be worth much, but I couldn't keep him in your shoes (I don't think - it's hard because I can't understand why anyone wants a dog iyswim).

I'd also not be happy if either DS was going to a house where a dog had done this - I can fully appreciate why you don't want to talk to anyone in RL about this, but will you ever be comfortable having your children's friends over with this dog around?

I do sympathise - but I just don't quite get it. I'm sorry if this is no help at all.

Sorry, i haven't read all of the thread i am afraid, but read your post.

I am a vet and if you had brought that dog to me for advice, i am sad to say that i would feel it would be my duty to persuade you to have the dog put down.

I couldn't bear the guilt that i would have if you went away with the dog and then it killed a child.

As far as rehoming is concerned, i'd really worry abou that too. It is all very well thinking that people with no children will take the dog on, but if the dog can't be trusted it just isn't safe IMO.

There have a been a number of terrible terrible tradgedies involving dogs and kids and if anyone says their dog has bitten a child- I am really sorry, but for me that is the bottom line and I invariable seek to euthinase the dog.
If this is not what the owner agrees, then I write this in their notes, and show them the notes so that they can't say I wasn't of the opinion that their dog is no risk

I know this sounds harsh, and I do feel for you and your tough decision.

Glad your not a vet near me!! So you wouldn't offer any advice on training or reccomend a home without children? You would just say put the dog to sleep

Nothercules, I have 2 dogs and have never been in the situation so don't know wha I would do. I would certainly not have a dog put to sleep unless it was a last resort which I don't think it is. Hope you get some good advice hun, I'm a bit too wound up by the so called vet to say much now xxxx

Totally agree Magnolia1. Getting behaviour advice from a vet is like getting brain surgery from a landscape gardener. I once had a vet who told me that because a previous dog had growled at him while having a booster vac (which he screwed up), it should be put down.

There may be situations in which PTS is the only option but you want that advice from a good professional behaviourist.

my dp mum had a stroke a year ago in may . we took on her dog as she was 12 and they had had her since she was a puppy and i couldnt bear the thought of sending her to strangers.
after 8 months she started getting very stroppy and was starting to snap at everyones feet . if the girls ran past her she would go for them . i had to get rid of tara and so we took her to a rehoming center and explained the situaion . i cried for 2 days . my dp was really upset to .

we later found out that she was rehomed to an older-than-us woman who had no children and a dog of same breed and age . she now has a wonderful life and is retiring in peace and quiet in the country. with a friend to share her last days with too . we begged them not to put her down and they respected our wishes before we let her go . im so glad we did what we did as we now have a lapdog puppy and she has become part of the family . we miss tara but for the saftey of our children we just couldnt risk it any longer . i use to say to dp that if tara had bitten dd3 because he couldnt bear to part with the dog then how would he feel when dd3 was walking down the aisle on her wedding day with big scars. it sort of weighed it all up for him .

dont regret it at all and am glad to know she is a very happy doggie now

hth

nothercles you are being very sensible about this I think

If it were me (you know I have a big dog too) I would probably have to get rid of the dog tbh. We were lucky in a way that the dog was here before dd - apart from a bit of sulking and jealousy we had no probs. We do still take her food away regularly and reinforce her place in the pack though she is now 5 and a half.

You just can't risk it with you dd though. Unless you can unequivocally say that you can "train" your dd to respect the dog and his space and never go near him when he is eating or in his bed etc then I really wouldn't risk it.

We never left dd alone with the dog until she could understand all this. She is very respectful of her and I regularly say "don't do X or Ruby might bite you and then she would have to go away for ever" that is enough of a stick for dd as she adores the dog.

Only just found this. I had a Jack Russell from birth who was 8 when I had DS. One day she went for the toast in DS hand in his walker and when he pulled it away, she growled and sort of snapped.

I got rid of her that week. Yes, it was very sad. But I couldn't put my dog over my child.

A girl at school had her face savaged by a rescue dog when she was 12, her parents must have felt dreadful as she was terribly scarred. You can get another dog but you can't replace your children.

I am very very nervous of dogs around DS now because of this. Dh tells me not to be daft, but I couldn't care less. Sorry if I sound harsh but I wouldn't even be asking this question really.